This is bullshit. Thread #2

[BeyondSpecialSnowflake]

Following on from...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/a2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit?msgid=63181862#63181862

It is very restrictive and fails to understand the reality of womanhood. In a lot of ways I'm quite stereotypical - I'm autistic and whilst this often comes out in women as not being in to beauty/fashion/hair/make up, in me its the opposite and it's one of my obsessions. If a TW had seen me out and about earlier today I probably played to their image of a woman pretty well - long hair in a pretty style, full face of make up including bold mermaid eyes, flicky eyeliner and pink lipstick, a retro/50s type dress, tights, heels, fancy handbag, glittery pink nails, walking around the shops with my DD who is a total girly girl and was wearing a sequined party dress!

What they wouldn't have seen was that:

• we were rushing from one party to another (hence the party gear!) and that's what I do most of the time, rush, because I don't float around just looking glam!
• I'd been rushing to get ready this morning because I was up late sorting stuff for our business until the early hours

-I was shopping at that point because I've been working away almost every week recently in a male dominated role where I'm often the only woman in the room

• I considerably out-earn the big strong manly looking DH I was walking beside
• my DH is the main carer for our cute girly DD (because of both of our jobs)

-when I'm not out and about I live in my PJs -afterwards I came home to study some very heavy economics/finance/stats -and this rushing around was taking place to a backdrop of cramps and a mooncup shoved up my foof!

Even when women appear to conform to the stereotypes we're so much more and it makes me angry every time someone says they're a woman because they like dresses/make up etc because even for those women who do like those things it is a tiny part of them.

Ha! air somewhat similar memory of my parents insisting that I wore a dress for the annual Christmas photo to be sent to all at that time of year (lived in the states). I spent my life in shorts and flip flops at that time, I gave in, I smiled, but my eyes give a perfect fuck you!

Still a female duh , though perhaps my parents would have felt the need to query my desistance to floral mumus/ skirts /dresses and would have sent me on another path in this day and age,

DITTANY I HOPE YOU'RE READING THIS.

I AM SPARTACUS.

Because it's male violence against someone who the perpetrator sees as a woman.

I thought, or certainly the idea-as-fact espoused by TAs, that violence against transwomen is because they are transwomen?

Ego I didn't read the Reddit thread - I opened it but it's in a horrible format and I couldn't be doing with it, but I can sympathise with how you feel. Not nice. It's why I don't post personal stuff on public forums anymore .

Tell the MOOFS to hush up and listen to the FOOFS

Its genuinely upsetting me as these people are actually considered friends to me and they now seem to have written me off as some homophobic bigot for trying to have a conversation about it. Should have known better, brain fart moment I think

I had a very long "ballerina phase" as a girl - long enough to still have the scars on my feet, as it's far from the pink sparkly fairy activity many people believe. I didn't, though, have a canopy bed, Barbies, sleepovers or tea parties with my dad. I had dolls, but also lots of Lego and a bike (I also have scars on my knees from falling off). I climbed trees, played tag and could go higher on the swing than anyone else. I could never play football (my coordination doesn't work that way), and I was never a true tomboy (blonde hair I could sit on, and as likely to wear a dress as jeans).

I think that's a fairly normal childhood for a girl growing up in the 80s? Far less gender divided than how I see my DCs growing up

Read here about mums in the US fighting for their childrens lives:

Schools morphing into indoctrination hubs:

4thwavenow.com/2016/08/22/k-12-schools-morphing-into-indoctrination-hubs-parents-share-their-stories/

Horny

Before you are demodded, maybe post the Edinburgh uni link, as a parting shot for them to mull over.

Plant a seed an'all that...

everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/trans-women-reproductive-justice/

We shouldn't just centre transwomen in Feminism but in reproductive justice.

You know, the people who are trying to fight for abortion and birth control access to women should stop what they are doing and get working on 'sperm freezing' for transwomen.

So they can be 'pregnant with sperm'

For real. From a feminist website

horny once you see it, you can't unsee it. It's like taking the red pill in the matrix. (Have I got my colours the right way round?)

But look at the Spartacus thread - hundreds and hundreds of women who won't be silenced any more.

Fortunately the trans activists and criminals just seem to be proving new damaging activities every day - the challenge is getting any media coverage

I hate to be the one to say it but I keep reading that tw are in danger of sexual assault in bathrooms. Really? I've even seen a transwomen post pics of herself saying do you really want me in the bathroom with your husband? (Because she is so hot our husbands won't be able to contain their lust etc)

It's delusional. No you're at no risk of sexual assault. Gay men won't touch because you're wearing a dress and straight men won't touch you because you're a man. Yes, violence is a possibility because men are violent. Men are also violent with other men, gay men, black men, disabled men the elderly men. Are we to take all of them in our toilets as well? Or can we simply not address male violence?

Horny put a link to the first bullshit thread and this one so they can see why you feel that way. Sometimes you have to have some logic thrown your way

EverydayFeminism is a misogynist site with a deceitful name. They hate women.

Think Helen, Miranda and Ego have all made really valuable contributions to this thread. It is so important to hear from people with lived experiences. Ironically that's what a lot of TAs/MRAs overlook when shouting over women. a widespread introduction of unisex toilet/changing options and TW and TM as classifications for health/ crime/ workplace rights etc seem like a really sensible way forward that would protect everyone but I just can't see the debate going that way.

Sorry death I don't agree, tge bullshit thread isn't clear enough.

You have let people see things for themselves. especially if they have strong opinions, the Edinburgh uni story is not laced with nasty bigoted terfs. It is what its. The bullshit thread would be demissed on sight as a load of raging turfs.

Once in doubt then people are open to new opinions.

Can I ask veni if you could expand on your point on the Spartacus thread that you think comparisons to racism are unhelpful? (couldn't ask on that thread as we are not dialoguing on there ).

.....I am asking this to help me understand it all better, not because I think it is wrong to say comparisons to racism are unhelpful. I don't know if they are or not and would be interested to hear your views.

Not read whole thread but wanted to say that if the trans ideology had been about when I was a girl I'd have likely been labelled trans.

I had short, practical hair, wore jeans, rode my bmx, chose trains over dolls to play with, chose blue paint for my bedroom, 'identified' more with my dad than my mum.

It's horrific to think I could have been brainwashed into thinking this meant I wasn't a girl and then permanently sterilised.

'Trans'ing kids is nothing short of fascist eugenics.

Same lightbulbon I'm so glad that my parents were always happy for me to just be me, and that I grew up at a time where I had no access to trans ideology. My life could have been so much different, and I suspect, not as rich and varied as it is now.

Parents' testimonies in user's link are positively scary.

And yep, it's about this too: reductress.com/post/hello-ken-doll-keeps-interrupting-hello-barbie/

wrong TRAs like to equate sex based segregation to segregation based on skin colour and therefore ally themselves with an ongoing civil rights movement. This makes it harder to question the TRA position without feeling yourself to be bigoted in lots of other ways e.g. racist

The difference is that race based segregation was purely racial bias - there was no evidence that white people were put at greater risk by black people coming in to their spaces.
Sex based segregation is based on the fact that women are at risk by men coming into their spaces (Google voyeurism if you want to see for yourself).

The other lens is that racial segregation was driven by the oppressor class (whites) insisting on separation from the oppressed (everyone not white).
Current sex segregation was initially driven by the oppressed (women) demanding space away from their oppressors (men). So to some feminists transgender women demanding access to sex segregated spaces is more akin to white people demanding to be centre stage at a black lives matter event.
This is magnified by the current rhetoric that a woman is anyone who says they are a woman, and so "woman" encompasses part time cross dressers and the Danielle Moscatos of the world, not people who have made a sustained commitment to living as a woman.
For logical people like me, we might as well get rid of sex based segregation entirely as this identification rule. But I worry that for many women that means they won't go to the gym or swimming, won't use public loos, won't use shop changing rooms. I see that as a curtailment of women's rights.

Yes, the parents' stories are terrifying.

I was struck by the claim that the TA have a lot of money. I want to know who is funding all this. These things don't just happen. Is it possible that it's a neo-con agenda, essential an anti gay movement? The neo-cons have been funding their right wing Christian fundamentalist agenda in the US for years now.

I have just finished reading Dark Money by Jane Meyer, which documents the secret funding by the Koch brothers and other neo-cons in the US. It's am alarming read. While there was nothing specifically mentioned re trans issues, this group have funded their Christian agendas, including the persuasion of poor Christians that Republicans will look after their interests more than Democrats.