Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

This is bullshit. Thread #2

999 replies

BeyondSpecialSnowflake · 26/08/2016 08:48

Following on from...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/a2716008-Seriously-MN-this-is-fucking-bullshit?msgid=63181862#63181862

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
StatisticallyChallenged · 27/08/2016 20:57

I don't get it either tbh. Even setting aside the "are TW really women" thing, there is nothing phobic or -ist about not being attracted to a person or group of people. It's not racist to not feel physical attraction to black people, or white people, it's not fatist to not be attracted to people beyond a certain size, and it's not transphobic to not be attracted to transwomen.

OscarDeLaYenta · 27/08/2016 21:14

Helen - that's because you're not a dick and mad. You are therefore automatically at a disadvantage when it comes to trying to comprehend this shit.

AGuyCalledHelen · 27/08/2016 21:35

Oscar GrinGrinGrin

Birdandsparrow · 27/08/2016 21:53

OK, maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but am I correct in thinking that some TAs accuse born women (I can't believe I have to type that) of having cis privilege? Meaning they are have the privilege of being born women, as opposed to TW who suffer discrimination? So, MEN (TW) are accusing women of being privileged, when it is women who are paid less, fear walking the streets alone, don't necessairly have bodily autonomy, suffer honour killings, have to cover in patriarchal religions. TW grew up as MEN and availed themselves of male privilege (i.e not having bodily autnomy, being paid more, etc etc) and yet they can say they feel female and then accuse WOMEN of being more privileged than them?
It's like a weird parallel universe that makes no sense, has no logic. It's all built on bullshit. And it's horrifying.

Birdandsparrow · 27/08/2016 21:55

Like I said, I've studied a bit of feminist theory years ago, I'm hetero, boring married with 2 kids but I keep on discovering more and more shocking things, jaw dropping.

StatisticallyChallenged · 27/08/2016 22:00

Yup that's exactly it Birdandsparrow, we have cis privilege because our gender matches our sex, apparently, and we are privileged not to experience "being in the wrong body" and all of the discrimination and prejudice which trans people face.

Check your privilege!

kua · 27/08/2016 22:02

Bird You've got in a nutshell.

Snowshimmer · 27/08/2016 22:04

And we are also privileged for having exprienced girlhood. Which is something I strongly disagree with...
This type of fantasy is not what real girlhood is:
bilerico.lgbtqnation.com/2011/02/give_me_back_my_girlhood.php

HermioneWeasley · 27/08/2016 22:07

That's exactly it bird. All women everywhere are privileged over TW because we haven't experienced their oppression.

An illiterate girl in sub Saharan Africa subjected to FGM is privileged over Caitlyn Jenner. True fact.

StatisticallyChallenged · 27/08/2016 22:13

It might be very self pitying, and I must register a complaint with my mother about the lack of canopied bed, but this is surprisingly realistic

"I often tell friends that I'll always be transgender; that there is no surgery that can make me have been born a girl"

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 27/08/2016 22:13

I'll re share the quote I shared yesterday from the Terf Is A Slur website in case you haven't seen it Bird : a collection of social media screenshots of online conversations and discussions.

"What I'm asking for is the same thing that feminism asks of men: that cis women make collective sacrifices to centre transwomen."

terfisaslur.com/centering-trans-people-in-all-discussions/

If you have a strong stomach take a look here at chapter 1, that's quite an education: terfisaslur.com/

FoxtonFoxFace · 27/08/2016 22:18

Thank you to venus for answering the questions on my post earlier.

StatisticallyChallenged · 27/08/2016 22:25

I'm not sure feminism does ask men to make collective sacrifices to centre men, tbh, but assuming it does surely that is in recognition of the fact that women are disadvantage relative to men and that men (as a whole rather than as individuals) are responsible in some way for that situation and so correcting it requires women to speak up, but also men to acknowledge and act to rectify it.

Do transwomen experience oppression as a result of that trans-status? In some ways, probably. But it is a different disadvantage from a different source to the disadvantages that women experience. I know many feminists and many branches of feminism fight for multiple inter-related causes, but at it's base feminism is about fighting against the oppression women feel because they're women. It's about fighting sexism. It's not about fighting the oppression homosexual men experience for being gay; it's not about fighting the oppression disabled people experience; it's not about fighting racism, or islamophobia...and it's not about fighting for the rights of trans people either. You have no right to demand feminism centres transwomen. Feminism needs to centre women and their lived experiences and battles.

StatisticallyChallenged · 27/08/2016 22:26

to centre women, not men. Edit button please MN!

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 27/08/2016 22:28

I can empathise with that Snow - it's an idealised fantasy but a very human one and part of human existence, we all have those losses of the ideal that might have been. Whether it's the happy childhood and competent or non abusive parents (trying to imagine my DF having a tea party with me.... imagination shattering in the process), the children that you might have birthed, the body that might have worked properly, the marriage that might have been. Growing up gay I'm sad that I grew up surrounded by images of heterosexuality and a total lack of any role models of what a gay woman was or even that one existed. It's not a big issue, but that sense of sadness is there.

More sadly, yes, the average girlhood contains some nastier things like the very probable sexual harassment or assault that most women have somewhere in their childhoods, the body shaming and all the rest of it. But I can well comprehend that idealised sense of what might have been possible for the writer in a less gender strict and gender scary world, if they had been able to express themselves as they wanted and not been afraid to do so. That quote is so poignant to me because it's filled with realism and good sense: "I often tell friends that I'll always be transgender; that there is no surgery that can make me have been born a girl".

I'll gladly support that to the hilt.

Birdandsparrow · 27/08/2016 22:29

Dear God the TERF is a slur thing, written largely by MEN, no? It reads very much like your typically angry woman hating man tweets.
There's one tweet which explains terf as someone who thinks TW are not women and I'm like "Duh, that's true".
How did we get here that MEN can put a dress on and BE women? I was telling DH and he was like, what? You mean transvestites? He didn't get the female penis idea at all, ha ha ha.

Thanks whoever it was for the QT explanation, but what are snowflakes in relation to all this? Magdalen burns mentioned them.

Birdandsparrow · 27/08/2016 22:33

I want it back. I want my Barbies. I want my ballerina phase. I want the bedroom that's pink and purple everywhere with a canopy bed. I want tea parties with my dad. I want slumber parties and unsuccessful experiments with make-up with my friends.

All these people have this weird idea that women are this stereotypical homogenous mass, that we all love pink, barbies and make up.

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 27/08/2016 22:37

Still thinking about it - thank you for sharing that article. After the last few days it is so good to read one that reflects trans perspective and people outside of some of the TRA extremism stuff.

venusinscorpio · 27/08/2016 22:42

Snowflakes - special snowflakes. People who think the world revolves around them and they're really really different and amazing and everyone else is just boring and mediocre. Because every snowflake is unique, get it?

venusinscorpio · 27/08/2016 22:45

My father isn't abusive, but I sure as hell never had any tea parties with him!

airforsharon · 27/08/2016 22:49

One of my most vivid memories is of me, standing half way up the stairs and screaming my lungs up in fury because my Mum had put me in a twee, pink dress to wear to a friends party. I was about 5 or 6 I think. I hated that dress, I hated all dresses, I still do. I wear make up and 'do' my hair, but wear quite masculine clothes. The 'girl' childhood bird quotes bears no relation to my childhood, and precious little to my daughters.

Stereotypical cobblers.

airforsharon · 27/08/2016 22:51

Rufus don't worry, I was reduced to 'MY ARSE!' on the Spartacus thread Grin

shins · 27/08/2016 22:54

Good lord. No Barbies, slumber parties, canopy beds, pink bedrooms or tea parties with my dad either here! And I had a totally normal happy childhood, just nerdy and bookish and not that arsed about stereotypical girly stuff. How weird and sad.

shins · 27/08/2016 22:55

(I mean sad that that writer's idea of girlhood is so narrow)

Birdandsparrow · 27/08/2016 23:02

Their version of womanhood generally is terribly narrow and restrictive.