Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

dear mn hq why are so many disablist threads being left up

999 replies

Samcro · 16/08/2016 15:21

one today for instance and mn hq post
"We don't think that this thread is disablist, it is a valid discussion that we don't think should be shut down. "

yet it has obviously been reported.
cause hurt and upset
how is that making life easier(or better) for the sn community`?

or this message from mn hq
That CBeebies is just far too PC
Thread deleted
Message from MNHQ: Thanks so much for all the reports about this.

Although there has been some interesting debate and discussion, we do agree that the OP and some of what ensues is disablist, so we have decided to delete.

how can these be interesting debates??
\not long ago mn hq said that they were going to be quicker dealing with this stuff
what happened??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Samcro · 18/08/2016 14:35

OH dear this has now become a thread about a thread.
i started this thread to ask mn hq why numerous threads were allowed to stand when they were/or became disablist.
this was never about one thread. if people continue to just discuss on thread on here this will be deleted.
and it will never be answered.
there are lots of other threads that continue to be left up even where they have clearly been started to goad. I aways use the wheelchairs on buses one and they are a good example as there is only one answer.
as i said in my op mn hq often delete and say that its an "interesting debate" as they did about the cbeebies one.....how the f can you debate that there are too many disabled people on tv.
this is a bigger issue than one thread.

OP posts:
BeyondLovesSweetDee · 18/08/2016 14:49

Sorry, yes Sam, you are right. I know it's about more than the one thread.

In relation to, but not just about that thread, polters answer to my question...
In general, is it okay to ask an offensive question if it is worded apologetically?

akkakk · 18/08/2016 15:19

The problem is partly in how people communicate - as asked above, is it okay to discuss or debate wheelchair use / autism - of course it is, we live in a land of free speech and this is a discussion forum, those who want no discussion really shouldn't be here, there is no right to tell others that discussion or debate is not allowed... There is a HUGE difference between discussion or debate on the one hand and provocation / being goady / being a troll / trying to upset on the other - that is what is not allowed in any thread, whether about disability or anything else...

Samcro is quite right in her latest point that this is not about one thread, it is not about autism per se, it is about a pattern of leaving up threads where they have clearly been started to goad - I can't see anyone on this thread who disagrees with that - such threads should be removed...

However there are still people on here who do themselves no favours by telling everyone else what they can and can't do / what is allowed within any debate - that is surely MNHQs job and ultimately if any of us don't like how they do it we leave the forum - it is their choice, what they are doing is not illegal, therefore the balance is up to them.

ref. definitions for Autism - as I was trying to explain, there has been historically, and still can be disagreement over how you define / label / describe / etc. autism / aspergers / etc. If there is no cohesion within the industry - and there isn't, then how does anyone expect the public who are not involved to understand? There is a public perception of Autism and it is those on the autistic spectrum who are in a place where they are really not going to find it easy to fit within society - e.g. non-verbal might be one sign of that... The public perception is that Aspergers is different as it relates to people who while they have some of the signs or traits can still hold down a job, live in society etc. - but may have rub points.

This is not some form of disability top trumps, there is no disagreement on this thread that autism is a disability... nor that everyone within the ASD umbrella has a disability - however the level of disability will vary as it does with any form of disability - as does how it affects life... As others have said above, there are those who are clearly on the spectrum who don't see it as a disability and will be offended if it is described as such, who therefore has the right to define what / when it is a disability? The disabling factors of ASD are around ability to cope with societal norms - that might be different from a physical disability as arguably were societal norms to change then those not on the spectrum could be argued to be disabled (as per the comment on scientists above) - that means that there is a philosophical element of discussion as to why Autism = disability which is as much a debate on society's failings as on disability. So that establishes immediately a good valuable reason for debate and discussion - and lets not forget, there are many academics and medical professionals who will and do debate these same topics - they are valid lines of debate - once again it means that back to the original point - debate = okay, being goady is not - and MNHQ make the decision as to which something might be, and no they shouldn't get it wrong, but they will at times...

There is a good post here: spectrumnews.org/opinion/viewpoint/why-fold-asperger-syndrome-into-autism-spectrum-disorder-in-the-dsm-5/ on DSM-5 and bringing Asperger terminology back into the ASD umbrella - it is a good overview of why there was an issue previously - but it is important to remember that the public's perception and understanding of terminology has considerable lag behind that of the professionals - who themselves often are slow in adopting new phraseology - often the public can be up to a generation behind as children diagnosed under one approach continue in the public perception as the same 'label' - so while this change is on the way, and ultimately should be helpful, it is very understandable that in the public eye there is still confusion - and that is back to the original point I was making, if the public see confusion, how are they supposed to moderate a forum?

PolterGoose · 18/08/2016 15:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Just5minswithDacre · 18/08/2016 15:34

It's quite simple akk. Posts expressing scepticism about autism, or implying that it's a behavioural disorder, or a modish fad amongst sharp elbowed MC parents, or whatever other slur, are STAYING UP. REPEATEDLY.

They shouldn't be.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/08/2016 15:38

No one tells.anyone what to do they merely express upset that hate speech. .which can be illegal..is left to stand

Just5minswithDacre · 18/08/2016 15:47

Maybe a practical demonstration is what's needed.

Collecting the posts, C & P ing them and substituting other disabilities for Autism. Then NCing and posting them and see how that goes? Hmm

BeyondLovesSweetDee · 18/08/2016 15:48

Free speech does not mean that people are free to debate whether a person who uses a wheelchair due to a physical disability actually needs a wheelchair.
That is hate speech, and is illegal.

And autism is no different.

veryproudvolleyballmum · 18/08/2016 15:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondLovesSweetDee · 18/08/2016 15:50

Free speech was made a legality due to the potential negative outcomes of speech in parliament. It does not come from the legal right to be an arsehole.

sharkinthedark · 18/08/2016 15:57

Thank you for explaining autism to everybody akkakk.

Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase 'disability top trumps' and why that phrase is pertinent to this thread?

PolterGoose · 18/08/2016 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSilverChair · 18/08/2016 16:02

I have never seen any hate speech against any group allowed to stay on MN.

"Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden. Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone"

PolterGoose · 18/08/2016 16:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/08/2016 16:03

Saying most kids with ASD don't actually have it but are just horrible kids is pretty hateful

Just5minswithDacre · 18/08/2016 16:12

Just you'd be better changing it to a racist analogy

Good idea.

GrimmauldPlace · 18/08/2016 16:17

The wheelchair on the bus threads are awful usually. I try to not even open them anymore if I can help it as I know the way they'll end up.

BeyondLovesSweetDee · 18/08/2016 16:24

"Inciting hatred" is hate speech, not just obvious slurs. Saying children with disabilities are just brats meets that imo.

BeyondLovesSweetDee · 18/08/2016 16:28

Saying anyone with a protected characteristic is on the swizz is encouraging others to think think the same. Hence, inciting hatred.

TheSilverChair · 18/08/2016 16:45

I think not - but I'm not a lawyer. Is anyone on this thread a lawyer?

Overstating the case is unhelpful, ultimately.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/08/2016 16:46

Do you have a child with autism? Out of interest?

veryproudvolleyballmum · 18/08/2016 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Samcro · 18/08/2016 16:52

akkakk can I think you for proving the point.
you talk about "confusion"
well autism is a disability.... there is no confusion.
trying to turn this thread into a debate about "confusion" is what is the root of the problem.
a thread can start out innocent and then turn into "confusion"
or in other words become disablist and then.....it should be gone.

OP posts:
veryproudvolleyballmum · 18/08/2016 16:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSilverChair · 18/08/2016 16:56

Do you have a child with autism? Out of interest?

Why do you want to know? Is my opinion more or less valid if I don't?