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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Not sure where to ask about this awful terrible baby advice you have published?

280 replies

ridiculouspirate · 06/08/2016 20:25

www.mumsnet.com/babies/features/developing-a-routine

What on earth?

Mumsnet advice pages used to be reasonably balanced and evidence based. Saw this shared on Facebook and wondered wtf someone was thinking?

Make it stop before someone tries this bollocks on their new baby!

OP posts:
JudyCoolibar · 07/08/2016 12:34

If your baby is a few weeks old you may need to leave him to have a shout for a bit longer. Sometimes he might take twenty minutes or so to settle. If you know that he is well fed and tired it is better to leave him to settle on his own.

Does the woman not realise that sometimes babies cry for other reasons than needing food? If I'd left my DC to cry for 20 minutes when they were a few weeks old, they would have worked themselves up into hysteria by the end of it.

NewStartNewName · 07/08/2016 13:30

All my DC were bottle fed, went straight on to a routine feed and all slept through from about 3 weeks old, it does work for some - surely no ones stupid enough to think it's a one peg fits all holes?

SatsukiKusakabe · 07/08/2016 13:33

I 'winded' my breastfed baby at first because it was what you were supposed to do. One time when I didn't he just fell asleep so never bothered with it subsequently. I think winding is largely a cultural thing - if you rub a baby's back you might get a burp, but doesn't mean they can't doo it themselves if need be.

Anonymouses · 07/08/2016 13:35

Did the great militant baby dictator write this? I did do routine but nothing even close to this level of insanity.

SatsukiKusakabe · 07/08/2016 13:35

Is a y this from the experience of grandparents who liked to 'wind' the baby for me after breastfeeds. Lots of patting and rubbing and then looking thoroughly pleased with themselves and saying "he/she needed that". I knew that when they weren't there we didn't do it and there was no difference Confused

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 07/08/2016 14:56

Depending on what she means by "a few weeks old" - I couldn't leave either of mine to cry/shout, because they both had a hernia (not an adult style hernia, it's where the tube down which the testicle travels from the abdomen to the scrotum doesn't close off at the top end like it's supposed to, so any pressure in the abdomen (like from crying/screaming) can force a section of the large bowel down there too. This is mostly reducible, but if it carries on, you run the risk of strangulating the bowel, leading to all sorts of problems.

So no, I didn't leave them to cry prior to their ops, at ~7wo.

At around 3mo, they both developed this issue with crying where they couldn't always catch their breath - they'd cry out, but be unable to breathe in again. Scary! So I didn't leave them to cry then either.

By the time Ds1 was in the cot, at 6mo, he was also able to pull himself up on the side of it. I tried getting him to "self settle" - leaving him to cry while sitting in my own room listening to make sure he was catching his breath - and then going in to check he'd fallen asleep when he stopped whimpering. Twice I found him asleep, head over the edge of the cot - he'd fallen asleep while standing. I stopped that as well after the second time, just wasn't worth the risk that he'd suffocate himself.

I realise my experience is just that, MY experience (Ditto with my comment that swaddling sucks - it did for me and my babies - and I should have been more explicit in my first mention of it) - but as many others have pointed out, it shows that the prescriptive method given on both the MN page and the paper article is NOT going to work in every case. By all means, have a SUGGESTION page that SUGGESTS these things might work; but add a large caveat that they MIGHT NOT EITHER and that this is down to the baby, not the mother's failure.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 07/08/2016 14:59

Sorry, that last bit should have been mother's "failure" - as of course it isn't the mum's fault if the baby hasn't read the rule book!

ridiculouspirate · 07/08/2016 15:20

There's a lot of not reading the thread going on here.

No one says all routines are awful.

It's not good for a bf newborn or their mother to be making them wait for feeds.

Who wants to leave tiny babies to cry anyway?

OP posts:
April241 · 07/08/2016 15:47

Oh dear, we're expecting twins in about 9 weeks, first babies and all these articles really worry me. I haven't a clue what to do with a newborn, we were planning on just seeing how they were and having a loose routine in terms of naps/bedtimes etc. I don't like the idea of strict schedules about feeding/playtime/naps that must be stuck to rigidly but also don't want to have two babies doing completely different things at completely different times.

I thought feeding on demand was what you done. I also didn't know you're not supposed to leave a hat on in the house Confused

Think I'm definitely going to have my mum on speed dial come October.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 07/08/2016 16:03

April - I'd recommend, if you can still buy it, Libby Purves' book "How not to be a perfect mother". It's very reassuring! Also, this article by her (I'm SO sorry it's a Daily Heil link) www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2994268/When-LIBBY-PURVES-wrote-book-motherhood-30-years-ago-life-simpler-Drawing-family-triumphs-tragedies-says-eve-Mother-s-Day-s-NEVER-tough-mum.html might help too.
Good luck with the twins! My mum had a pair of them - makes life more interesting, that's for sure! Grin

Pussywillows · 07/08/2016 16:40

April I have 18 week old twins if you want to PM me anytime - I didn't have a clue what I was doing and spent the last weeks of pregnancy panicking, but it all came so naturally and they've made their own routine now. You'll do great Flowers

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/08/2016 16:42

April you'll be fine. None of us know what we're doing in the beginning and for control freaks like me! some people knowing that you can't control things and just have to go with it can make a big difference to how we feel. That and knowing that newborns don't sleep for long stretches although they do tend to sleep most of the day/night - they just do it in tortuous little bursts! If you can find the link I posted from the sleep experts it's really well written and also shows the wide range of "normal". Do read all the article because it is pretty good.

April241 · 07/08/2016 16:49

ThumbWitchesAbroad thank you! I'll take a look at the article and see if I can find the book, life is certainly going to be very interesting soon!

Pussywillows aww brilliant, that's reassuring, congratulations on your two also. Fingers crossed some sort of instinct kicks in when mine arrive.

Moving thank you I'll definitely check out the article. You're right about not being able to control everything, makes me feel a bit panicky already! Just need to toughen up and get on with it.

Thanks for your lovely replies, will ignore the article and take deep breaths!

AppleMagic · 07/08/2016 17:46

MNHQ could you have someone with a background in breastfeeding support look at the article and advice you on how much of the advice is suitable for bf babies (and not just "in the first few weeks"). Totally agree that there are lots of different ways to parent but I think the particular approach outlined in the article (not demand feeding, not allowing snacking, putting the baby down a lot) is the approach that led a lot of women to "not produce enough milk" in the author's time.

SatsukiKusakabe · 07/08/2016 18:09

Yay apple magic

SatsukiKusakabe · 07/08/2016 18:17

april I had a lot of thoughts about how I would do things before they actually came along, but IME (which doesn't include twins) you're in the best frame of mind - open-minded, a loose routine, wait and see what works for you and them. Congratulations and you'll be fine Flowers

bringmelaughter · 07/08/2016 18:27

Just a reminder that nursery nurses and maternity nurses aren't medically trained. In fact you can gain yourself a maternity nurse qualification in 4 days or less or even act as one without any training.

This lady's biography says that she trained as a nursery nurse in the '60s and doesn't mention any other particular qualifications. Obviously experience is important but if someone gives advice that is so against that of current NHS advice, which is formulated by qualified experts, then they should at least explain the risks and benefits of going against NHS guidance.

This is disappointing of MN and I hope that they can see that it is causing confusion for parents whom MN say they are trying to make life easier for.

LyndaNotLinda · 07/08/2016 18:45

I tried to follow a routine like this with my baby. It nearly broke us. After 3 weeks of utter misery, I decided to follow the baby's lead and lo, we were both much happier. He was still a shit sleeper though.

ridiculouspirate · 07/08/2016 19:59

Also could you at least change the "let's face it. .." Facebook link please? Angry

OP posts:
Spudlet · 07/08/2016 21:56

My grandma was amazed that my milk hadn't 'run out' by the time DS was 3 months old. I wonder if advice like this is why she expected that to have happened as a matter of course Sad

LittleBearPad · 07/08/2016 22:37

This is a 'gentle' routine really. From a woman who advocates letting babies have a 'good shout.' Angry

That article will not 'make parents lives easier'. It is full of out of date advice. And I doubt very much that the muppet who posted it to Facebook with that absurd comment has ever cared for a tiny baby.

LittleBearPad · 07/08/2016 22:38

There was meant to be a ? at the end of the first sentence.

CharlieSierra · 07/08/2016 22:43

I really don't think so Spudlet my DM was born in 1932 and she successfully bf us, as did her mother before her who had 10 children. The only advice I remember getting from either of them was that I needed to take care of myself and that included eating liver and plenty of dark green leafy vegetables. Smile They were also very interested in changing opinions and took on board what I said.

ICJump · 08/08/2016 05:33

Did you really not think to speak with some actual experts rather than a business women who trained in the 60s? COme on MN you cna do better than this.

J0kersSmile · 08/08/2016 08:34

This thread is such an over reaction.

The article is titled 9 simple ways to develop a routine for your baby. If you don't want a routine then don't read the article and don't have one.

It's no different then the millions of attachment articles explaining how to Co sleep and feed on demand.

It's not a bible, no one's asking you to be converted to it.

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