What is Mumsnets definition of transphobia?

[TheRealPosieParker]

That's it really.

Mine would be hate or violence against trans people. Mine would not be "misgendering" or acknowledging transwomen are male and that they are not women.

Och, they way I want it to work is, if you are kind and respectful then you reap what you sow.

I wouldn't dream of entering a place of religious worship, or different culture, disregarding their rules, and mouthing off about my right to do so. That would be rude. But if I was kind and respectful towards where I was, then I would be made welcome. No one is so unicorn special that they have a right to behave in this way.

This is turning into a fight about semantics, and it needn't be. No one, I imagine has any problem at all with a nice person who identifies as Trans. Or a pleasant person who identifies as Woman or anything else.

It is the pests on either side, who goad, and wave around their sense of entitlement like a weapon. That's who we should be focused on.

And calling out bad behaviour from anyone shouldn't have you labelled as a transphobic, or a woman hater. We really should have each other's back here. No one is entitled to behave in a way which causes pain to others.
Peace out. Xx

I've reported herm's post to ask the same thing. They're taking their time reading it!

the only trans child that I know of ego, has had such a fuss made of him/her at the school that a few threads on mumsnet would be neither here nor there.
In fact there was even a documentary team at the school prom., and anyone objecting to being filmed was told not to bother coming.

ego trans people and parents of kids who think they are trans have the rest of the Internet for unquestioning support.

This is the one place that you can have any kind of gender critical discussion without being deleted, called a bigot (though there are plenty of,posters saying that too) and told to die in a fire. Lesbians told they are transphobic for not wanting to have sex with male bodied trans women. Women told they are TERFS if they dare to say that abortion is a "women's issue". TW complaining the term "FGM" is trans exclusionary.

Unless MN change their policy, there is not going to be that level of unthinking support for the notion that biological sex is a social construct and gender identity is what's real. So yes, MN is a "site for parents"" but MN is a site mostly used by women, and the redefinition of woman to mean "a vague feeling" is a huge issue for us and our daughters.

Hermione - what is TERFS and TW please?

Sorry Ada

TERF - trans exclusionary radical feminist. Could be a neutral (if very specific) description of people who don't buy into the trans orthodoxy, but is in fact used in a very unpleasant way - see examples in this link. terfisaslur.com/

TW is just short for trans woman/women. I haven't used it but TA in this context tends to stand for trans activist - the individuals who push the extreme dogma about identity being exactly what you are and biology being irrelevant. There are actually lots of trans people who understand biology and just want to get on with their lives, but the TAs have been astonishingly successfully in pushing their agenda and a number of us are concerned about the consequences.

There may be parents who are worried about the future of their trans children following these threads, but there are also parents (there's been one recently in "teenagers") who are wary of the trans orthodoxy and are happier after speaking to gender-critical feminists here.

I don't think it's possible to keep both groups entirely happy, and think mn's current rules are the fairest way it can go.

hermoine just to point out, there are a couple of gender critcal subreddits (on reddit, obviously) if anyone is interested. They link to other blogs, one or two which may be relevant for parents in that situation.
I can also think of at least 2 other forums which also permit gender critical discussion.

"ometimes I think it can be forgotten on here that this is a site for parents. There are going to be parents who are concerned about some of the issues that have been alluded to on here"

But surely there can be different types of threads? Obviously support threads are different from discussion and small-p political threads? And surely feminists who have concerns have the right to express their views too?

Yes, I do understand about "othering" and I know it is incredibly complex. But I do genuinely feel that I don't know an acceptable way to express my thoughts and views on this subject. I am not transphobic, but I know I have been labelled as such. And the labeling has shut me up before. I thought on this thread, because of the very clear title I would be able to ask questions and express views without upsetting or offending anyone or being shut down. It seems not.

ego I think that's true to an extent of all forums and media, though. People tend to use forums where they feel comfortable.
Just using myself as an example, I wouldn't bother posting on a forum that banned statements of biological fact as 'hate' or 'phobia', it would be a waste of my time, as much as say, posting on a forum that promoted creationism and banned discussion of evolution.
One of my (boy) children did express himself in what we think of as 'feminine' ways, liking girls clothing, toys, copying the models on ANTM and so on, and I would be rather concerned if he had been labelled as trans. This forum (and a few others) would have provided an alternative point of view.

Btw, I have started reporting posts that directly call me transphobic if none of my posts break guidelines, as I consider it a personal attack.
Poor mnhq are gonna hate me

I just wonder if that makes you reflect when people get annoyed at being labelled as sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist etc on here. Using labels does not help with debate.

It is not the same. People disagreeing with your opinion is not oppression.

Killing people is oppression.

Name one example where a feminist has murdered a transwoman. Because I doubt you can come up with even one, let alone a significant number.

Or stop pretending that this "transphobia" thing is the same as the things you have listed. It is not. Men kill transwomen, yes, but it is not homophobic men you accuse of "transphobia"; in most cases it is women who just want to live their lives in safety who are accused of "transphobia".

HQ have deleted the original thread. I have started a new one about the valid female voices who have been essentially deleted.

I've been called transphobic. Frankly, I don't give a shit.

I'm angry. I'm angry that women have been oppressed for thousands of years. And demanding we be othered by calling us 'cis' is just another way to do it.

I'm angry that female athletes are forced to compete against men.

I'm angry that women have been raped by men because everyone is tripping over themselves to be inclusive.

I don't give a shit how Carl/Carol down the road wants to live her life.

But I'll be damned if I need to be re-labelled so she can do it.

If there needs to be a distinction (and there should be), what's wrong with women and transwomen?

After all, I'm not the one changing.

"
I just wonder if that makes you reflect when people get annoyed at being labelled as sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist etc on here. Using labels does not help with debate."
Sorry - don't understand this.

Where is the thread questioning the decision to delete the weeing in front of a TW thread please?

In the feminist forums, I think, Lady

Ego. Ironically this thread isn't about you!

I just saw that the pee thread has gone
There was nothing (still standing, I know a few posts went early on) that I read in that thread that has not been left up on mn before? And the only personal attacks were from numbername posters. Is there a new choosey-choosey moderator?

I seem to have also just been told that a direct unfounded allegation of transphobia is not a personal attack.