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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Banning the term "cis"

979 replies

OlennasWimple · 06/07/2016 23:36

Apologies if this had already been done, but can MNHQ consider banning the term "cis", given how horrifically offensive so many users of MN find it?

I don't think I need to set out the background and reasoning to this request (but can do so if it would help!)

OP posts:
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6
VestalVirgin · 08/07/2016 11:28

Passing trans men (rare, but occasional) can use make male facilities because nobody would know they are not male
Non passing trans men (most) can use the female facilities because everyone can see they are female

Unless everyone has drunk the gender Kool-Aid and throws perfectly female lesbians out of the restaurant because they used the female facilities while having short hair and not performing femininity. Hmm

There need to be clear rules that every female-bodied person uses women's facilities, no matter how they dress or cut their hair. (Passing transmen can use the men's room without anyone noticing, so there need not be rules for that.)

Most women see the logic of this immediately, but there are some who would like to bully gender-non-conforming women by pretending that they look like men when they very obviously neither look nor sound like males. Apparently we need laws to prevent this.

By the way, I am fully in favour of an extra room for trans. According to at least one study, FtT individuals have a male-type level of violent behaviour, and I do not want to share spaces with people who would hit me in the face for "misgendering" them.

RoseDeGambrinus · 08/07/2016 11:28

So this 'male / female brains' thing. What is it exactly in my head that I share with a transwoman that I don't share with my mate Jim, say?

NoMudNoLotus · 08/07/2016 11:29

Well yes obviously if they find it offensive then they should be respected ( but shouldn't everybody be anyway ?)

But just because some find it offensive it doesn't mean the term should be banned.

Personally I find the term "she's a schizophrenic" dehumanising because actually it is a person with shizophrenia.

But I wouldn't call for the term to be banned.

NoMudNoLotus · 08/07/2016 11:31

Bertrand you might find it offensive but nobody is blackmailing you.

Lweji · 08/07/2016 11:31

I agree that it shouldn't have to be banned, but I side with it not being used. The problem is that it seems that some transwomen on MN don't seem to understand that what they ask for (not being called a certain thing) also applies to other people. In that sense, a ban would help, as does a ban on personal attacks.

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 11:37

"Bertrand you might find it offensive but nobody is blackmailing you."

There is a very strong suggestion that not wanting to use "cis" is an indication of transphobia. That is blackmail.

VestalVirgin · 08/07/2016 11:41

There is a very strong suggestion that not wanting to use "cis" is an indication of transphobia. That is blackmail.

Indeed. It is emotional blackmailing, which only works on people who are so horrified at the idea of being called transphobic that they do everything to avoid it, but an attempt at blackmailing nevertheless.

Dutchcourage · 08/07/2016 11:43

sigh> trans men are female
They are welcome in female spaces because they are female

Hmmmm I think DNA and biology would tell you different.

I wonder - if I declared myself a pantha and identified as one, I'd be allowed to go live in the pantha enclosure at Chester zoo... I would call myself a pantha and declare all natural born panthas 'cis panthas'. Everybody would have to change all the terminology they have used for thousands of years because it would piss me off that I wasn't excepted as an original pantha. In fact - I would just use all the pantha facilities and if the cis panthas didn't like it thry could set up else where. Gosh cis panthas can be soooo discriminate and bigoted.

I totally identify as a pantha as I'm sleek and sexy Smile

NeedACleverNN · 08/07/2016 11:45

Dutch a transman is a woman biologically.

They were born a woman and transitioned to a man. Therefore their dna would still say XX. A female

MonkeysWAGMug · 08/07/2016 11:48

A "pantha" ? Confused

Lweji · 08/07/2016 11:55

It's a cross between a panther and a panda.
Sleek and sexy but with white patches.

NeedACleverNN · 08/07/2016 11:56

They don't exist do they?

Lweji · 08/07/2016 11:58
Grin

Actually, I was wrong.

Shock
BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 11:59

But do they identify as a panda or a panther?

NeedACleverNN · 08/07/2016 12:00

I was going to say Grin

They can't exist because they aren't even the same species!

Panthers are felines and pandas are not.

A panther can breed with a lion of a tiger at a push but not a panda

Lweji · 08/07/2016 12:03

A panther can breed with a lion of a tiger at a push

One of those accidents where they fall naked on each other? Or do we need to paint the lion or tiger?

Terrible digression.

NeedACleverNN · 08/07/2016 12:10

It usually zoos trying to do a new mix and funnily enough Google shows a panther crossbreed but like you said I am digressing

mylovegoesdown · 08/07/2016 12:14

My ftm friend absolutely wouldn't be welcomed into female facilities just because he has the sexual organs of a female. He is having 'top surgery' this year and uses a binder but even if he didn't, he'd just look like he had the chest tissue of an overweight man. He obviously also has female genitals.

He's also almost six foot tall, very large framed and has multiple tattoos and multiple facial piercings. He is also massively hairy, both face and body - far more than lots of genetic males. I've been out with him and seen people cross the road because his appearence seems intimidating to some people. He would definitely cause alarm in female toilets or changing rooms. No-one would think he was female.

I know he's not what people on these threads are worried about but he simply would not be welcomed in female facilities just because he's genetically female.

LadyStarkOfWinterfell · 08/07/2016 12:24

Trans men are female
Are you confused?

SorenaJ · 08/07/2016 12:24

NN If people are encouraging girls to wear dresses, then why not boys? Clothes don't have a gender, it's clothes. What is wrong with a boy wearing a dress, exactly? People go out and actively dress their girls in a dress? They are kids. The only difference is their bits. The dress is not gonna fly off a person, if that person have male bits.

Bertrand I'm not reducing gender to clothes, quite the opposite. I was replying to a post. And dresses can be gender neutral. Gender neutral =/= leaning towards masculine.

LadyStark Nope, not a teenager. I will dress my baby son in dresses, just like I will dress my baby daughter in dresses, 'cause they are cute. The second either of them expresses a desire to not wear dresses, I will respect that.

Seek Well no one would bat an eye of me wanting my girl to wear dresses, which was why I started with the son, because that was the whole point. Saying "I'm going to buy my daughter a dress" is not really going anywhere. Also see my reply to Ladystark. Neither my hypothetical son or daughter will be forced to wear a dress.

VestalVirgin · 08/07/2016 12:25

No-one would think he was female.

Well, then he can use the men's room without any laws forcing men to accept him in there, because they won't notice anything off, anyway. Right?

LadyStarkOfWinterfell · 08/07/2016 12:26

Awesome. So he can use male facilities. As I said. Passing trans men are rare but they do exist. Most don't pass.

SorenaJ · 08/07/2016 12:27

mylovegoesdown exactly. Lots of ftm passes as men, and would be harrassed in female restrooms. People are just saying that to attempt prove their point when it makes no sense. Lots of transmen are passing.

NeedACleverNN · 08/07/2016 12:28

Rightly or wrongly dresses are for girls.

Yes they are just bits of clothing but if it really didn't matter, men would not have to say they felt like a woman in order to wear a dress

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 12:30

"I will dress my baby son in dresses, just like I will dress my baby daughter in dresses, 'cause they are cute"

And presumably you are going to make sure your son never interacts with anyone else, or watches TV? Because we live in a society where a person in a dress is assumed to be a girl, and will be treated as such. Your son will not be treated as gender neutral- he will be treated as a girl. Which completely, I assume, defeats your object.