Banning the term "cis"

[OlennasWimple]

Apologies if this had already been done, but can MNHQ consider banning the term "cis", given how horrifically offensive so many users of MN find it?

I don't think I need to set out the background and reasoning to this request (but can do so if it would help!)

men would not have to say they felt like a woman in order to wear a dress

They don't.

Women campaigned to wear trousers and suits without having to say they felt like men.

Why can't men do the same?

Men don't just wear dresses if they want to because male clothing is the norm, dresses are for the second sex. They don't need to 'feel like a woman' - they just have to be a man who truly believes in the equality of women and the 'feminine'.

Sorena I've come across some very trying people on MN but I must say you are at the top of the delusional bunch. Seriously , when you've grown up, met someone that will put up with your nonsense and IF you ever have children, read back on everything you've written and you'll be embarrassed and maybe laugh at how incredibly naive you were. I'm already embarrassed for you.

Women have trousers made for women

There are no dresses made for men unless you have one custom made.

Sorena I'm all for gender neutral attitude but I have to say I had to laugh imagining you going out with a ds dressed in a dress.

Seeing the reactions I got with using a very very pale pink baby grow with ds when he was about one month old, you'll get some very interesting discussions

Maybe some transwomen should stay men but take the much braver step of coming out as feminists! grin

No need for the grin, Bert, these transwomen already exist! I don't know whether Miranda Yardley minds being hoisted as a flag for intelligent trans-ness: probably not, as she's on something of a mission, thank goodness.

She's not alone, and plenty more transwomen are coming rapidly to the discovery that gender isn't all about degrees of masculinity.

I can sum up my feelings about trans people, sex & gender by thinking of women's long & continuing struggle to be recognised as valid in what we are.

Why don't transwomen sing "I am transwoman, hear me roar"?

I have some big issues with the term CIS.

My motto is equality. Why on earth do you need to segregate two type of women, the cos women and the trans women. Are you saying they are different? If they are, is one better than the other and why is that?

Making a separation between different types of women means yoou automatically say that one is better. The same way that making a different between men and women, having men stuff, women's stuff involves an evklauation that one is better than the other.

What about just stopping putting people in boxes instead and talking about people.
You should only need to talk about the sex of the person when you talk about health and maybe having sex.

MsKite how often has there been transwomen attacking women in restrooms? Big fat Zero. That's it. It has never happened.

Sorena, this is a list of incidents (not written by me) where women have been attacked in sex-segregated spaces by men presenting as female. I'm not saying they were all genuinely trans but they were certainly pretending to be, so where do you draw the line on that?
I'm absolutely not saying that all transwomen would behave like this. The point is that women need sex-segregated toilets and changing rooms for a reason.

Men dressed as women committing offences in toilets UK and ROI

Serial offender changed into women’s clothes to commit multiple offences – attempted rape in public toilet.

Disguised as a woman in order to peep. Expressed gratitude he was caught as felt his offending could have escalated.

Shouldn’t have been in Ladies – accidentally exposed himself to a child. 6 month suspended sentence “A very unsavoury offence”

Toilet and changing room offences worldwide committed by offenders in women’s clothing

Transgender sex offender wearing women’s clothes to perve at children changing
Man dresses as a woman “I wanted to see women naked”
Man dressed as woman peeping in toilets
Woman punched in face for questioning cross-dresser’s presence in a toilet
Man in Barbie costume attacks woman in toilet
Man dresses as woman to video women in toilet
Man just wearing women’s knickers attacks girl, 8
Pervert dresses as woman to tape women in toilet
Man in bra and wig arrested in bathroom. Admits took a shower in girls’ locker room “for sexual gratification”

Transgender people attacked in toilets
We are often told that transwomen are at “huge risk of rape, assault and murder” if they use the men’s toilets. I couldn’t find one single report in 10 pages of Google search (Feb 2016) for “transgender woman attacked in bathroom” of a trans person attacked for using the toilet that matched their sex. By contrast all of the above examples were easily found within the top results of my Google searches.
This recent incident in a unisex single cubicle at the Stonewall bar is really horrible and unfortunate. It does show that these incidents do receive press coverage so if attacks in male toilets were as common as we are led to believe there would be more evidence online.

There were several reports of trans people being attacked for trying to use the toilet for their chosen gender including one horrible attack on a transwoman trying to use the Ladies in a US McDonalds in 2011. Two teenagers, a boy and a girl, beat her up outside the toilets.
Also this: FtM transgender bullying victim beaten and sexually assaulted while using the toilet of his chosen gender… i.e. biological female attacked in boys’ toilets. Then admitted he had made it all up.
www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/03/report_transgender_teen_attack.html
nypost.com/2014/03/05/transgender-student-faces-charges-after-lying-about-bathroom-assault

Transman harassed using the men’s toilet

Transwoman punched by man for being in the ladies
Apparently 61% of transgender people have been verbally harassed for using the gender-appropriate toilet, 9% have been physically assaulted and one transwoman reported being sexually assaulted in the men’s toilet.
www.wvgazettemail.com/news/20160102/proposed-nondiscrimination-ordinances-cause-debate-about-bathrooms

I'm about halfway through RTFT and just want to say...

1. I do not identify as cis, so don't fucking call me cis
2. As a person in the LGB group, I find it massively offensive that people are saying "oh you're so LGBT-phobic, blah blah blah" T is nothing to do with LGB.
3. As a disabled person, I find it massively offensive to have people compare it with that. I don't "identify" as disabled, I can't fucking walk. It is a biological fact.

Still reading, but have a quick question.

Can I report someone (if unfounded) calling me transphobic as a personal attack? Because that is certainly how it is intended...

I suppose you could if you felt it was a personal attack. Then it would be up to HQ to decide if it is a personal attack or not.

Usually the do delete it if you genuinely do feel victimised

2. As a person in the LGB group, I find it massively offensive that people are saying "oh you're so LGBT-phobic, blah blah blah" T is nothing to do with LGB.

Vulva Me too.

Several horrendous cases in Canada of trans women raping in women's homeless shelters and in women,s prisons even murder in an area near an army base where the officer in charge of the base had been raping and marauding for years .

I was sexually assaulted in broad daylight by a man in a dress, just yards from my home. I don't know whether he was a cross-dresser, TV or TW but was often seen locally dressed as a woman with a wig and make-up.

In my mind, it will always be "a man in a dress" that assaulted me, regardless of what he identified as.

I find cis offensive too.

There are no dresses made for men unless you have one custom made.

Most dresses I see these days seem made for men. They assume the person wearing them have no breasts. Just saying.

But, yes, why not, start with custom made?

Yes, I think you should be able to report that as a personal attack, when it is clearly meant to say you are an ignorant bigot. People shouldn't be throwing that kind of language around at people willy nilly. It is offensive.

Men are completely free, as far as I'm concerned, to wear dresses as a man, i.e. In the same way I am currently wearing jeans whilst also being a woman

Sorena - until relatively recently all children wore dresses until the age of about 7yo. We have photos of both my grandads (born in the 1920s) wearing them

Women campaigned to wear trousers and suits without having to say they felt like men.Why can't men do the same?

Because they don't want to wear dresses because dresses are practical and comfortable. (Or, some men actually do campaign for skirts to be recognized as gender neutral, but they're a tiny minority.)

They wear dresses to signal that they "feel female" or as part of their submissive sexual fantasies where they are forced to behave like second class citizens (women). There's some overlap between those groups. None of them would profit if a man in a flowery dress was a common thing one sees everyday and - importantly - if such a man would still be recognized as male by everyone else.

"The dress is not gonna fly off a person, if that person have male bits. "

You don't say.

"Oooh... so we're all genderqueer, and so are most of our DH/DPs!"

Have you not seen the lovely kind of men who live in the comments section of pink news who now say (paraphrased) "all the transphobic TERF cis scum are now claiming they are gender queer/agender and thinking they can join in on our special snowflake-ness. Hope they all DIAF"

lweji it's ridiculous isn't it. Beautiful dresses made for an AA with no back or very low back so you can't even wear a decent bra.

EttaJ I thankfully, thankfully, happen to be queer, which means I am surrounded by you know, actual decent people, they are all such a lovely bunch, so for some reason I'm not too worried about that. (I'm just gonna ignore the slight ageism in your post)

And yes, call me naive. But we are not gonna achieve change if we all sit back and be like "oh yes. Society is cruel." That has never been how you achieve change. If we want change the society we need to do something about it. We need to fix society.

Yes sorena! You're on the right track. It's society that is wrong! So we fix society, not individual bodies.
I'm sure you have come across the concept of radical/structural analysis at university. That's what you're talking about here. In fact, it's almost like you're a radical feminist but you haven't quite put 2+2 together yet.

"almost six foot tall, very large framed and has multiple tattoos and multiple facial piercings"

And I joked about being a man on the other thread cause of my clothes!
Sorry ladies, it seems I am indeed a man. Well, actually.......