Hey MNHQ. Would it be possible to have a discussion about how SN issues/threads are handled on the main boards.

[Pagwatch]

I know you are fire fighting a bit and I'm not trying to stir things up.

I just think that there are endless threads that require you to get involved and try to (for the sake of a better word) mediate between pissed of posters with no real experience of SN/disability and pissed off member of the SN/disability community.

I think you try really really hard to be fair and even handed. It's an understandable response but I have growing doubts about it.
There have been half a dozen threads recently where posters I recognise as living with SN/disability issues deal with a continuous stream of posts from any random who pops up on a thread making the same stupid, ill informed or frankly goady post.
It's like swimming through a tidal wave of shit.
Then, as posters get increasingly exasperated by each arriving poster saying 'well I'm not putting my buggy away if my baby is asleep' or 'why can't I use the disabled toilet if it's empty' or 'but people with SN can be violent. I know of stabbing someone and attacks all the time' they get rude and the thread descends into eurrgh.

I'm still reading constant posts where anyone affected by disability is berated if they are angry, the message being 'be nice, be grateful or we don't have to be fair'

It seems to me that the status quo of 'fairness' is simply unfair.
Posters already dealing with immense difficulty shouldn't be forced to defend themselves against every person who turns up and says unpleasant things under the umbrella of debate. You said a long time ago it was not our responsibility to educate but the reality is that, with no palpable support from you guys, we are endlessly having to educate.

I am not pretending to have the answer but is it possible to contemplate methods by which you could actually say to posters saying 'if someone in a wheelchair can't use their space because I'm not putting my buggy away' that their comments are wrong and not in the spirit of the site?

You link to the This Is My Child campaign but the posters who are the problem won't care and won't read it.

I don't know - I just wonder if you could think about this.
Sometimes there are not two sides to a debate because only one side is directly affected, exhausted, distressed and having their lives and their children's lives made harder.

Why restrict posts about people's attitude to the forums where people understand it. We need to challenge the attitudes of those who don't!

im not sure Toomany is going to point out who has been rude.
But she/he does serve as a marvellous example of some of the things the thread is talking about.

I think toomany is hacked off about the buggies thread.

Wouldn't be the only one....

I find it very disturbing to suggest discussions about SN should be contained within SN. Many posters have written why better than I could but one thing that struck me was where do we stop? Male posters in their section, minority ethnic in their sections/sub-sections and so on...

The thing is, issues to do with SN effect us all. An example - in 2014 the LSE published a paper about the costs involved with Autism:

Cost of autism to the UK economy is £32.1bn per year, compared to cancer (£12bn) heart disease (£8bn) and stroke (£5bn).

We spend just £4m per year on autism research, as compared to cancer (£590m) heart disease (£169m) or stroke (£32m).

The cost figures show that autism affects all of us in society, every day, regardless of whether or not we have a family member or friend with autism. So we all need to play a part in making things better.

Toomany I'm not sure where to begin so I'll just leave it...

It's interesting though isn't it?

The idea that I'm the mother of a boy with SN and the expectation is that I shouldn't swear or be angry or call people fucking arseholes.
It's part of the whole 'special children are sent to special mummies' idea. The 'I couldn't do what you do' mentality.

I was 30. I worked in the city. I laughed, I drank, I loved, I fucked, I swore, I cared. Then I had my son and suddenly I'm different. I'm supposed to be ever patient, ever giving. I'm not. I'm the same person.

If you irritate me enormously I may imply you are a massive cunt. I'm just as I was. And if your child became suddenly disabled, you'd remain essentially who you are too.

You could do what I do because, guess what, you have no fucking choice.

That post sums up exactly what we are talking about doesn't it.

The bitter spiteful one.

You've nailed it for me Pagwatch

I have been accused before of being really angry and aggressive when I wasn't even actually angry, just mildly exasperated. Very strange.

Ok, everyone, if you don't have SN, if you don't know anyone with SN, if you're not in a wheelchair or don't know anyone in a wheelchair, do not comment. Your points are invalid, unwelcome, and will be immeadiately pissed on, shot down, belittled, condescendingly commented on, patronised and laughed at. It's just not worth it

How bloody ridiculous.

Great thread, and excellent points made. I've avoided anything to do with SN lately as they're just full of nasty bigoted comments from people who are just out to voice opinions they'd never voice to anyone in real life.

And why should we shy away on the SN board? It's not like we all huddle together in a corner away from everyone else, we do have friends and family who don't have SN and we do discuss issues with them.

I completely agree that this is a problem that needs addressing.
Some of the comments on that zip wire thread were just awful. So many comments from people basically saying that if you have special needs then you have to learn to behave the same way as everyone else, and if you can't, you shouldn't be allowed out unsupervised. Such a lack of tolerance.

What also gets to me is: it has been officially confirmed that there were trolls and sock puppets on the girl in park thread and the buggy on bus thread. Banning happened.

Those trolls say really vile things. .which is bad enough (get a life) but what really gets to me is MN posters come along and actually agree with the trolls and give us a hard time for being angry at them. Actual posters and not just the sock puppets. Just why?it is symbolic of a lack of respect for people seen as the "SN brigade" (yuk)

I hope people read this and realise they did it. And think on.

If I had agreed with someone who had been trolling and deliberately making disabilist posts I'd seriously have to question how nice my own views were.

Agree again, Pagwatch.

I had a hunt through my posts from 4/5 years ago, when there was last a big (and by that I mean 'on the main boards') blow up about the amount of ridiculous disablist posts/threads, and the number of my old posts I found where I said exactly as you just have is astounding.

I do hate the 'I couldn't do it'-ers. It's so distancing, and I'm not sure whether that is deliberate or not. I had to fend it off again in RL just this week.

I have thankfully avoided the zip wire thread, and also any recent buggy/wheelchair ones, but have probably read the shite often enough over the years.

No one ever sees us together though Panda

The 'I couldn't do it' is one that I now never ever let go.

I don't remember when it first irked me but I now always, always say

'What does that mean? Do you think you would try and send him back - you know they don't let you do that, right?
I think 'I couldn't do that' actually means 'rather you than me' '

I haven't read the buggy or zip wire threads. We have been plunged back into the world of disabilities with our youngest. I haven't ventured much into other sections of mn except sn children. I am still learning and still finding my feet. To be faced with these threads and disablist attitudes makes me hurt.