Trans people being allowed to compete against women in the Olympics

[OhShutUpThomas]

The Olympics are now allowing men who have taken hormones for 12 months compete against women.

It is NOT transphobic to say that this is grossly unfair and a huge violation of women's rights.

Women who have trained all their lives cannot be expected to compete against people with male bodies and who will be allowed roughly 4 times the normal female testosterone levels.

It's not on. We can't stand for it.

Please get behind this mumsnet. Someone needs to take a stand.

It's NOT transphobic to state that this is unfair. It really isn't.

rufus threads get a feel - polls can get a feel too...people chase posters around and out name changes. The number of trans women on MN isn't huge and accusations could and would fly.

I honestly thought this thread would calm down to the point people could converse controversial views...but it hasn't. I am still being called misogynistic for thinking that womens only elite sport is a net negative impact on women.

kua lol. you see all the deleted comments...maybe thats why you can't see the stomping.

Posts weren't deleted for 'stomping' on you, they were deleted for troll hunting, which is against guidelines.
In other words, people didn't think that you were being genuine. It wasn't that they were being all mean to you.

HTH

Nah, the more you sprouted shite, the more you thought others would believe you.

Well, you were wrong .

Yes i know that kua

I am, in effect, agreeing with venus and merry

Good thinking MNHQ
I'm all for lifestyle choices, liberty etc
But trans women competing against women? For something as important as world records? This just isn't on.

iceberg For the love of god, you have a completely different view point on this issue of which is not relevant at this time.

So why need for the discourse?

Pick a topic and discuss there.

when I add anything about this to my facebook timeline it's like posting in a vacuum.
The same with the Tara Hudson issue.
So either people agree with me and are wary of the implications of that.
Or they disagree but are unable to comstruct any kind of meaningful argument. Becasue there isn't one.
I can imagine people thinking that the ruling to allow trans people to compete in women's sport would run along the lines of it being "wrong" to deny a man the right to be known as a woman if he chooses so to do.

Not only is it bloody obviously unfair in terms of competition, it is yet another example of being pushed aside and redefined. This has huge implications for our daughters and nieces etc.

If people would stop mis-stating my view points and asking me questions then I would stop posting...

People have said many times that I don't think women should be in sport. This isn't true. I am a woman and I enjoy sport. I think womens and girls participation in sport would be best served by allowing women to play with and against men who are at the same level as themselves with no gender segregation.

Stop saying I think otherwise and I will stop posting.

Icebeing, how exactly would that work? And wouldn't all elite sport, the very best of the best, therefore be men. So women's sport would disappear from view as all the top level sport would be men only. Or have I misunderstood?

So, pick a topic and post your views on non competition amongst the sexes. No one is stopping you, however this is not the discussion.

FB group link again for anyone interested in further discussion. It's closed so no one can see your posts or that you're a member.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/ATWIWS

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) re We've been discussing these threads at MNHQ, and we'd be happy to ask a representative from the IOC or similar to come on for a chat, and/or to host a debate on the issue.

Thank you, that is a great idea.

Icebeing that does happen in some sports (my dds sport is mixed until about 11). Sometimes the older classes 16+ are mixed due to small number of competitors. The boys always beat the girls in the older classes. But not necessarily in the younger classes. So I would hazard a guess that hormones and puberty make a big difference for boys. I doubt one year of later hormone treatment would reverse this.

What is interesting is the girls reaction to being beaten by boys. They accept it as the normal run of things.

When you get to the regional and national champs boys and girls compete separately.

I think Icebeing's points are relevant in that, in the light if this decision, we should clarify why women have separate competitions. It seems as though the IOC are a bit vague on this.

shoesshoes hockey?

The same, felicity. I've shared quite a few bits and bobs, not one single like or comment. Only the general chat about human evolution (before i womaned up) has comments, and thats still only two people.

Twitter is a tad more responsive, still nothing negative too :)

I've certainly skipped over threads where the majority would disagree with me, rather than name change and post. And we are all allowed to contact MNHQ if we wish. And as for name changing, blocking PMs and hiding threads rather than a quick "I disagree with this" to MNHQ - seems unlikely! I only ever post from a mobile so it's a pain to set up a new user name and I have no idea how to block PMs!

Whether there is 1% or 10% against a campaign, I don't think MNHQ have based this on the numbers.

The main thing MNHQ can take from this is any media comment by Justine on this issue re her members will, I hope, be informed by the numbers and comments.

IceBeing, if you want to start a thread about that, go ahead. I think there was one on FWR a few years ago...

Fair point woman

Lacrosse?

venusinscorpio
How does "Support the ruling", "protest the ruling" or "abstain (for any reason)" not represent people's views exactly?

This was in response to my comment: The design and wording of the poll are not neutral/unbiased and some people's views will not be represented by the available voting options.

Abstain - I think this option is pretty redundant. People are likely to abstain by not voting. Asking for one word answers doesn't encourage reasons for abstention which might be relevant to the debate. (And on the poll the option is just 'abstain'. No mention of 'for any reason'.)

Support - very few people are likely to vote 'support', even if they broadly accept the idea of transwomen competing in the women's category under certain conditions. Difficult to support at this stage without highly specific medical knowledge enabling a best guess at how the policy will work (in particular, what are the effects on the body of a male athlete of maintaining testosterone levels consistently below 10 nmol/L for a year – is it enough for fair competition?). Much easier to form a judgment once the policy has been put into practice and issues will become apparent.

Protest - I think it's important to know whether objections are based on the new changed guidelines or the principle of transwomen taking part as women under any circumstances. And if the former, whether people agreed/disagreed with the previous conditions for transgender competition; whether objections are based on the potential for cheating (e.g. men taking hormones but not being transgender) or because the rules are less rigorous than the previous ones.

If you want to canvass opinion to change policy, I think it's pretty crucial to know what objections are based on (the IOC's policy itself or the principle of transwomen competing as women), and how you want the policy to be changed. The poll doesn't cover that.

People have said many times that I don't think women should be in sport. This isn't true. I am a woman and I enjoy sport. I think womens and girls participation in sport would be best served by allowing women to play with and against men who are at the same level as themselves with no gender segregation.

So basically there would be 2 tiers of sport:

There would be the elite, top level, which would be made up solely of men.

Then there would be the 'mediocre' level, where men who would never make the cut in top level sport would.compete. Oh and the women would be able to compete at this level too.

Sounds great