Trans people being allowed to compete against women in the Olympics

[OhShutUpThomas]

The Olympics are now allowing men who have taken hormones for 12 months compete against women.

It is NOT transphobic to say that this is grossly unfair and a huge violation of women's rights.

Women who have trained all their lives cannot be expected to compete against people with male bodies and who will be allowed roughly 4 times the normal female testosterone levels.

It's not on. We can't stand for it.

Please get behind this mumsnet. Someone needs to take a stand.

It's NOT transphobic to state that this is unfair. It really isn't.

How is that an x post?

I'm just highlighting a cynical and supportive post operative trans view on the IOC's decision.

Womb's link is very interesting.

Apologies Maryz, I've got it! No worries.

A piss poor response from MNHQ tbh. The We Believe You campaign had plenty of detractors IIRC, but MN pressed ahead with it.

Isn't it interesting how it's always "experts say," or "one doctor, here, who specializes in transition medicine, says" rather than anything about some kind of study?

Muscle mass is so far from the only thing that gives men a competitive advantage. Not only do men also have other physical traits where their bell curve is significantly shifted vis-a-vis women's curve (grip strength, hand size, foot size, height) and that are unchanged by hormones, but what about the immense socialization benefits we know boys get when it comes to competitive sport? So much for all that research about how little girls are discouraged from playing and how it ends up harder for them to do. So much for all the evidence that women's coaches are underpaid compared to men's and that girls don't get the same caliber of training. All that goes out the window the moment a single hormone measurement from men reads "slightly less than normal male."

Even if they were required to bottom out their testosterone, I'd want to see actual studies with reasonably-sized transitioning cohorts that could illustrate that MTFs' athletic ability bell curve basically matches that of women before I'd even entertain the idea of being okay with a policy like this. Why is no one making these doctors show their receipts? They're making money on being the "experts," but all they'll say is stuff like "actually, her testosterone is now lower than that of a natal woman, so she's actually at a disadvantage," as if that automatically follows and we should lap it up.

Come on, transition docs, tell us another one.

Thanks Becca for the reply.

I respect MNHQ and think that you do a brilliant job with this site. It's refreshing to have somewhere to discuss these issues with minimal (and usually understandable) censorship.

However, I think you're being spineless here.
Not for not supporting a campaign - but for your reasons, which frankly, I don't buy.

There's overwhelming support for this. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that people in support of the IOC decision don't want to post on the threads for any reason - but they are not usually ever absent from any thread about trans issues to voice their support, so it's very telling in this case.

For anyone who is interested in supporting the cause, the Facebook page is called 'Fair Play for Women's Sport' and the picture is of a high school girls' basketball team, nicely illustrating why these rules are not representative of equality.

The group is 'closed' so no one but the members will be able to see what you post.

Mary

Absolutely Womb, no financial clash of interest there from the professionals.

Sport is political, especially the Olympics.

Is there currently a testosterone threshold for female athletes? Aside from all the other factors... I'm just wondering how much higher it would be than female competitor; I know it's higher than the general population but is there testosterone doping, and would this force some women to do it?

OT, but maryz when did you start calling it "trending"?

Rebecca that should say.

That trending this is ridiculous.

Please stop bullshitting us MNHQ. We are your members.
Have a bit of respect. We're not stupid.

The comments on the next few pages of the Guardian are well worth a read. Facetious, but they do highlight how ludicrous this is:

"I identity as a 70ft racing yacht and it's always been my dream to compete in the Sydney to Hobart race. Looks like I might finally have a precedent, here!"

"Good. Women have been dominating in the female fields for far too long."

trending thing

You know, perhaps this will end up being a spectacular own goal for the trans movement.

I haven't spoken to anyone yet who's been anything less than incredulous about this. It has certainly been the catalyst for a few people I know to have their eyes opened about what's happening to women's rights.

It's pretty offensive to be lied to, but I've had previous issues with the way mnhq operates so I guess I'm not surprised.

Some of the comments btl are funny such as this:

"So we'll all be commenting on Loraine's lunchbox in the 100m final then?"

But there is this serious and important point.

"Female athletes could find themselves fighting all over again for the very recognition, visibility, funding and airtime that they have had to spend decades battling for in order to achieve the (still-limited) presence they have now.

The struggle is back: it is only misogyny that has changed its face."

Another vote from me that it's absolutely shit.

And further back we go..

It's ridiculous that MNHQ think we are stupid enough to fall for their bullshit lines.
And to all of those apparently reading and complaining to MNHQ about these threads, have the guts and courage to put what you think on here.

Yy ninja. With the namechange facility here anyway, there isnt really any excuse!

Perhaps its just all of hq who are radical (in the extreme sense!) libfems

It's so heartening to see that wherever this has been reported online, there are hundreds of comments condemning it - even from trans people themselves.

And yes all the cowards if there is any speak up!

It is totally unfair to stigmatise as cowards people who won't say they are in favour, given how many of us are too scared to say in other contexts that we are against.

But I do think MNHQ should tell us how many such communications they have had.