should we address the casual antisemitism on MN?

[thedevilinmyshoes]

I rarely venture beyond my narrow range of interests on MN these days so I don't know if it happens a lot, or if a similar level of hatred is extended to other groups, but what I saw tonight was sinister (particularly against the current backdrop of a surge in antisemitic crime in UK). I wondered if we had an agreed definition of what constitutes antisemitism or if people feel the issue is covered and handled well enough within the existing guidelines.

Opinion presented as fact with the intention of discrediting an entire people is (in my opinion) racist

That happens on MN a lot.

katmanwho
So what "casual" views on MN do make you anti semitic?

I have know Idea, but to use an example from another thread, a poster said that the word "uppity" was racist as it was used in the USA to put down black people.

Are we all supposed to stop using "uppity"? Is this casual racism or taking it to far?

I had to go look up the term "beck" because like other posters, I had thought that "Beck" was an artist that sang songs.

"The OP talked about increasing casual anti semitism on Mumsnet.

If I say I haven't seen it, it doesn't mean I don't think it exists- it just means I haven't seen it and please will somebody show it to me. I'm not pretending I haven't seen it-I genuinely haven't. So saying "See? That proves it, you're in denial" is just not helpful!"

Bertrand . I've shown you how it exists . Do you still doubt as in your earlier post to me you expressed remorse that my family feels " so embattled." Presumably then since you have heard me you can no longer deny that anti Semitism exists, surely ? Just then interested why you posted what you did above ?

Also interested why Bertrand - I think it was her/him - was amazed at the level of tolerance I few up with in my childhood? Why amazed at the tolerance ? That seeks to imply that the reverse should have been my experience - a lack of tolerance . I wonder why you think that ?

Presumably then since you have heard me you can no longer deny that anti Semitism exists, surely

Bertrand and others have asked about on MN. There is no doubt it is increasing in RL. But the OP is about casual anti semitism on MN

Lisalisa- I am sadly aware that anti semitism is real and increasing in real life. My impression was that this thread was about casual anti semitism on Mumsnet.

You seem to be taking issue with my post. I was just surprised that there was a time in the UK where there was no anti semitism and I was wondering whether your parents protected you from it. And I thought long and hard about using "embattled" but it was the feeling I got from your post..

Thank you for your explanation. It is easy to misunderstand sometimes where different people are responding to different parts of a thread .

I feel there is sometimes an anti Jew undertone on MN.
(Note that i say that i as an individual feel this.)

If i feel "wronged" then am i right to feel wronged?

It doesn't upset me, i don't lose sleep over it.

Maybe i'm a tad oversensitive and am looking for something that isn't there.

There's a thread at the moment where the OP has been fleeced by an Israeli.
I don't think the nationality has any relevance to the situation and do question the motives for mentioning it.
Maybe i'm paranoid but i can't help thinking that a certain number of people will be thinking "Israeli? Doesn't surprise me.".

Again i stress that this is my perception and i'm probably way off the mark but when you go through life tarred with so many negative stereotypes it's sometimes hard to give the benefiut of the doubt.

And no, i shan't link to the thread out of respect for the OP.

"Thank you for your explanation. It is easy to misunderstand sometimes where different people are responding to different parts of a thread"

So if I hadn't come back to explain, what would you have thought?

I am assuming that you did not mean to say that I am in favour of a pogrom

Bert, not only did I not mean to say it, I didn't say it. You do not need my confirmation, all you need to do is read my post.

Bertrand - I would have thought that despite my explanations and examples of how anti Semitism is visibly and tangibly on the rise - as experienced by my family - that you still could not "see" that it is so . I was trying to get confirmation that you were not one of throes people that until you physically see something yourself you will not accept its truth

"Bertrand - I would have thought that despite my explanations and examples of how anti Semitism is visibly and tangibly on the rise - as experienced by my family - that you still could not "see" that it is so . I was trying to get confirmation that you were not one of throes people that until you physically see something yourself you will not accept its truth"

Gosh. Wow. So almost the exact opposite of what I actually said. Not sure where to go from there, frankly. I feel rather shocked.

Shocked? Seriously?
Lord above!

StonedMoses- wouldn't you be shocked if you had posted what you thought was a friendly sympathetic message, and it came over as being a denial that anti semitism exists?

I am admitedly becoming way too over invested in this thread but can i say this discussion is rapidly becoming futile?
Round and round in circles.
Let's have a vote on the original OP.

Is there casual anti semitism on MN?
(Let's emphasise the "casual").

In my opinion, yes.

Next!

Bertrand, to answer your question, no i wouldn't be shocked in your situation.
I would be eager to clarify my position and disgruntled that my post had been misinterpreted.
In the words of a famous philosopher (ScottishMummy if i remember correctly!), "words on a screen".

You can come across as being agressive in some posts and it is tempting to misunderstand your tone.

Bertrand, Was it you who counteracted an argument with "all my Jewish friends think x y z." ?
I think it was in reference to the tensions in Israel and Palestine.

Forgive me if it wasn't you, i'm making dinner and can't scroll through the whole thread.

Is there casual anti semitism on MN

I don't think there's a right answer here. TBH - compared to the abuse, othering, labelling and stereotyping other groups get on MN, I don't think that casual anti semitism is prevalent. Other groups on here get a hell of a lot of "anti - groupism".

If there is anti semitism, I hope it would be challenged. People do challenge - or rather mock - views like there is a Jewish control of the media. I am sure people would challenge stereotypes - such as "Fagin" type views. I've not heard some of the words on here before.

MN though is a reflection of the outside world - and anti Semitism is on the increase. I have no doubt there are people on here who hold anti-semitic views.

Bertrand you said it in the post I quoted from you - that you hadn't seen etc anti Semitism so didn't think it existed . That is why I asked clarification . I don't know why you are so hostile and oppositional .

And to stoned Moses question I vote yes. But only after reading this thread . Perhaps I blissfully ignored it before .

It's akin to "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
If you want to see it, it's there.

If you want to see it, it's there

That's a loaded statement. Are you suggesting that people who can't see it don't want to see it?

I'm not suggesting, i'm stating!
If you want to see it, it's there.

A subjective metaphor coined by the creator of Shylock.
Aaa there's the rub.

So if it's there but people can't see it because they don't want to see it, how can the people who are unable to see it challenge it?

I think we've asked enough times how we can see this casual MN antisemetism that is apparently there.

This thread is mental. Theres been so many chances to educate and set down exactly what it is so in future more people can spot it and I'm still none the wiser. Maybe its me, who knows. I don't think I care anymore tbh