Is Mumsnet HQ evil or not very bright.

[TiggyD]

As some of you may already know you're allowed to call transgendered women "men in dresses" and refer to them as "he" and "him.

"So some men dressing as women..." as one posted said in relation to trans women got the reply from RebeccaMN:

We agree that this post is in poor taste but we don't tend to delete on those grounds because it would be really hard to know where to draw the line.
The truth is, we don't think we should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive and what they shouldn't. In these instances, it's very rare that a tasteless comment is left unchallenged, and we would highly recommend that you put forward your point of view on the thread.

Well firstly I think Mumsnet should draw the line at discrimination of a protected minority group.

Secondly, if MN don't think they should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive, maybe they should ask a representative from a human rights or anti discrimination group? Misgendering is always wrong.

Thirdly, is it rare an tasteless comment is unchallenged? Now the trans people on Mumsnet refuse to post on trans related threads who the hell is going to challenge them?

Fourthly, that post was unchallenged. Have a look at the thread.

Fifthly, "tasteless"? "TASTELESS"?! WTF? Tofu is tasteless. Would MNHQ describe calling people spastics or coons or faggots as tasteless? Misgendering is a put-down towards an entire minority. Dismissed as tasteless.

A quick look at a quote about the 2010 equality act:
"harassment - unwanted behaviour linked to a protected characteristic that violates someone’s dignity or creates an offensive environment for them".

Is there harassment in trans related threads on here? Is the dignity of all transwomen violated by referring to them all as men in dresses? Bleedingly obviously yes. Does it create an offensive environment for them? How the hell could it not? Does Mumsnet do anything to stop it? No.

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It all makes me wonder if the people of MNHQ are deliberately letting all this unkindness and discrimination and harassment go on because they evil, or because they don't know any better.
I think I have it. I reckon it's like the Ricky Gervais thing where he started doing "Mong" faces. All kinds of people told him it was offensive and an unkind name for people with Downs Syndrome but he refused to accept it. I think he thought that as he believed himself to be a good person, and he used the word mong, that mong had to be an acceptable word because he was good. I think it must be like that in MNHQ. They believe themselves to be good people and when they allow people to call transwomen men on thier site it's fine because their belief in themselves being good trumps all the views of the victims.

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One question for MNHQ that I alluded to earlier. Have you ever asked any kind of trans, human rights, or anti-discrimination group about how to treat trans people?

Have you?

Ever?

It has been answered, at least twice Tiggy, try RTFT you muppet.

1)Yes, there is harassment on the site, perpetrated by you, Tiggy and your misogyny.

2)What that actual fuck does that have to do with you? Are you some kind of nursery nurse cum HRA lawyer?

3)Yes. As has been established.

Poor Tiggy, the women just won't do what he wants.

Boo fucking hoo.

Perhaps MnHQ are practising their Evil Look in the mirror

Who the fuck does TiggyD think he is? Anyone reading him might think he feels entitled to women's time and attention until he is completely satisfied and tells them when he's had enough. Anyone might think he can't comprehend that people might not give a fuck about what he thinks.

I really hope MN are preparing the ban hammer. Anyone fancy setting up a petition?

Flora not only who the fuck does he think he is? But also, what is his problem. It's like he's obsessed with this topic.

I reminds me of the person posting about zipping up her child's coat all over the internet. Like a morbid fascination.

Do you people who object to being called 'cis' (presumably you want to be called 'normal' and can't see that it's an issue to imply trans people are abnormal in some way), also object to being called 'white' (if you are white) because you've had to state something that everyone takes as the default? Can you see the problem in that?

No, cis is not misgendering.

FFS.

And FWIW, cis men speaking up for others is a good way to use privilege for good, because everyone else is exhausted from having to fight these battles in daily life.

Another trans thread full of bigots, so I will do the usual thing of saying my piece having read as much as I can, not reading to the end of the thread to see the full horror, and hiding the thread because the bigotry is really fucking hurtful.

April, I like to called by my name or referred to as a woman. That's what I am. Not 'normal', not 'cis' or anything else. A trans woman is a trans woman. They were not born as a woman and it's bugger all to do with being 'abnormal'. They are not a woman in the way I am a woman and I don't have to pussyfoot around calling myself something else to please them.

cooger your pic needs a pussy.

How is white the default race/colour?

Woman and man are the default genders/sexes based on biological differences.

White is no one's default setting. You can't be 'trans white'. You either are or you aren't or you're a mixture of white and something else or varying degrees of race/colour/nationality and so on.

There are billions of permutations.

That's really not an appropriate analogy.

April

Do you people who object to being called 'cis' (presumably you want to be called 'normal' and can't see that it's an issue to imply trans people are abnormal in some way),

Is that really what you see? Because it certainly isn't the reality of it at all. I'd just like to be called Baking, or woman, or in rl by my given name and boxed into a gender identity I don't recognise, in the same way as trans people don't want to be. Why is ok to do that to me but not a trans person?

also object to being called 'white' (if you are white) because you've had to state something that everyone takes as the default?

Is white the default? That's a somewhat racist belief if I might say. However, I would have no problem with someone calling me white, given that that is my skin colour, whereas 'cis' is not something I am.

Can you see the problem in that?

Can you?

No, cis is not misgendering.

If you do not identify as cis, it most certainly is.

Ah, but you've 'hidden' the thread, haven't you.

I believe I have as much right not to be referred to as cis as a transgender woman has to not be referred to as he.
Caitlin Jenner and any other transgender man or woman has the right to identify and live however they want and part of that is to be referred to in the way they want. I want to be referred to as a woman and that is my right but I dislike the word Cis in front of that.
As for MNHQ being evil who knows? Never met any of them but allowing people free speech doesn't strike me as especially evil

I've met some of them Hopping one of them offered me a seat, another showed me where the water and biscuits were, none of them appeared to be sacrificing goats or piercing wax effigies (at least not in the room we were in), Justine even smiled and looked slightly perplexed at me.

Evil may well be the wrong word to use about them.

Although, who knows, MNHQ might be a hotbed of satanic activity and bestrewn with upside down pentacles and crucifixes? Might explain some of the more surreal web chats that have happened...

MNHQ what's your policy on biscuits? (not , real biscuits)

Is it the same on this site as in your office?

I DEMAND AN ANSWER!!!

I now have a nice mental image of Carrie holding up a jammie dodger at Justine in silent reproach when it starts kicking off at MN Towers...

And I would like to applaud Buffy for her posts of 12.58 and 13.05.

Would also like to offer and to MNHQ for having to put up with this shit. I've had a drunken conversation with Justine about car parking (or rather, our inability to do it without scraping brand new cars) at an MN Christmas party. She didn't seem particularly evil at the time...

Still not answered MNHQ!
Are you really expecting them to dignify your shouty attention seeking Op with an answer? "No Tiggy we are definitely not a bit thick or the antichrist"

Don't mention Stonewall cooger as he had a proper pop at them when they did a web chat to discuss homophobic language in schools.

Do you people who object to being called 'cis' (presumably you want to be called 'normal' and can't see that it's an issue to imply trans people are abnormal in some way), also object to being called 'white' (if you are white) because you've had to state something that everyone takes as the default? Can you see the problem in th

What are you actually on? I am not CIS because my sex does not match my "gender". Because gender is made up bollocks. I don't receive CIS privilage because as a human with a vagina who doesn't perform femininity very well I'm actually treated like crap by large sections of society. This does not make me trans either. It just makes me a woman.

You can't call me something I am not. I won't be called 'notachristian' because I don't believe there was a man who died for my sins 2000 years ago though I am happy for others to call themselves Christians.

Also genuine question.. How come when two women have opposing ideas about what makes a woman it's the one with the penis who is always and and the other is the bigot? Why am I not allowed to say that I have no innate gender and be believed?

This thread has flipped from debate to having a nasty bullying tone (not all posters), which leaves a nasty whiff in the air.

^ agree

You don't think calling calling MNers BNP or MNHQ evil and stupid is bullying?

Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener. Tiggy has shown himself to be a bullying brute who avoids any questions and shouts and stamps his feet. Pathetic.

Am quite surprised that MNHQ hasn't commented on the thread though

It seems to me that the logical outcome of this thread and recent posts by tiggy would be a righteous ban hammering but I can imagine MNHQ dare not risk the eventual spin that they were actually being "transhobic"