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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Is Mumsnet HQ evil or not very bright.

595 replies

TiggyD · 23/07/2015 20:02

As some of you may already know you're allowed to call transgendered women "men in dresses" and refer to them as "he" and "him.

"So some men dressing as women..." as one posted said in relation to trans women got the reply from RebeccaMN:

We agree that this post is in poor taste but we don't tend to delete on those grounds because it would be really hard to know where to draw the line.
The truth is, we don't think we should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive and what they shouldn't. In these instances, it's very rare that a tasteless comment is left unchallenged, and we would highly recommend that you put forward your point of view on the thread.

Well firstly I think Mumsnet should draw the line at discrimination of a protected minority group.

Secondly, if MN don't think they should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive, maybe they should ask a representative from a human rights or anti discrimination group? Misgendering is always wrong.

Thirdly, is it rare an tasteless comment is unchallenged? Now the trans people on Mumsnet refuse to post on trans related threads who the hell is going to challenge them?

Fourthly, that post was unchallenged. Have a look at the thread.

Fifthly, "tasteless"? "TASTELESS"?! WTF? Tofu is tasteless. Would MNHQ describe calling people spastics or coons or faggots as tasteless? Misgendering is a put-down towards an entire minority. Dismissed as tasteless. Angry

A quick look at a quote about the 2010 equality act:
"harassment - unwanted behaviour linked to a protected characteristic that violates someone’s dignity or creates an offensive environment for them".

Is there harassment in trans related threads on here? Is the dignity of all transwomen violated by referring to them all as men in dresses? Bleedingly obviously yes. Does it create an offensive environment for them? How the hell could it not? Does Mumsnet do anything to stop it? No.

-----------------

It all makes me wonder if the people of MNHQ are deliberately letting all this unkindness and discrimination and harassment go on because they evil, or because they don't know any better.
I think I have it. I reckon it's like the Ricky Gervais thing where he started doing "Mong" faces. All kinds of people told him it was offensive and an unkind name for people with Downs Syndrome but he refused to accept it. I think he thought that as he believed himself to be a good person, and he used the word mong, that mong had to be an acceptable word because he was good. I think it must be like that in MNHQ. They believe themselves to be good people and when they allow people to call transwomen men on thier site it's fine because their belief in themselves being good trumps all the views of the victims.

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One question for MNHQ that I alluded to earlier. Have you ever asked any kind of trans, human rights, or anti-discrimination group about how to treat trans people?

Have you?

Ever?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
AnyFucker · 05/08/2015 20:30

Tiggy, are you transexual or not ?

And MN should banhammer you for reproducing a reply that was meant to be private here.

Nobody is listening, dude. Do you get that yet ?

I remember when you used to be a reasonable sort of chap. What happened ?

NotJustaPotforSoup · 05/08/2015 20:33

There are quite a few threads with parents of trans children where non of this debate happens. The bigger picture posters stay well away out of respect because it's not about individuals. Those threads are notably absent of either trans people or trans allies too, though.

NotJustaPotforSoup · 05/08/2015 20:36

And as for doing your bit, do you ever post beyond the men as nursery workers thing? I assume the doing your bit extends beyond mumsnet, then. Maybe you are a lone voice on p i s t o n h e a d s.

BanditoShipman · 05/08/2015 20:40

'Notjusta', further to your point, I would stay away from those threads unless I had advice/help I could offer. I would not post that biologically their children could not be the sex they want to be, as my opinion was not asked for and I would not want to distress them at all.

However, when someone continually tells me I am 'cis' and states that biological facts make me a transphobic then I will comment. I am sick of men trying to tell women how to think and act.

UptoapointLordCopper · 05/08/2015 20:41

"I am sick of men trying to tell women how to think and act."

Me too.

Angry
lougle · 05/08/2015 20:47

Someone with a disability is disabled by nature of an objective condition.

Someone who is born is born a certain race.

Someone who is gay expresses an attraction to a member of the same sex.

Someone who is trans says 'I feel like ' or 'I am despite all objective signs being that I am '

Can't you see that there is a big difference between them?

NotJustaPotforSoup · 05/08/2015 21:00

You don't get it and neither do some vocal representatives of the people you are trying to defend. Your opinion is worth as much as someone who tries to tell me that the rain that is falling because there are hamsters in the sky with bladder control problems.

Transwomen are a sub set of men (not women) and the fact that the government didn't want to address the gay marriage issue and thought that women would roll over and accept the erasure of their struggle and hard fought veneer of equality doesn't make men into women.

I don't know where we go from here, but I will not stand by and not voice my thoughts on the the creep of the sidelining of issues that matter to women. It's already happened across purportedly feminist spaces. I know it doesn't matter to you if there is no discussion on abortion or maternity rights or on liberation of women against male violence (unless trans, of course), but that dialogue needs to happen. And there are vanishingly few places where it can. And you are a part of that movement against.

How noble.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/08/2015 21:37

Are you trans, Tiggy? You seem to be implying you are a victim of transphobia.

MarchLikeAnAnt · 05/08/2015 21:45

TiggyD is a cross dresser I think (according to some internet searches). Not trans though.

kimcat32 · 05/08/2015 21:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kimcat32 · 05/08/2015 21:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 22:09

Good grief, are you still whining on about this? Women keep talking among themselves how they want to talk, and not how you want them to. How very dare they.

Well, boo fucking hoo Hmm

MNHQ have the patience of saints when it comes to our few token non-women. If any of us regular MNers were to become such a nuisance, we would have been banned a long time ago.

GinSoakedBitchyPony · 05/08/2015 22:10

OFFS. Not this again.

Pagwatch · 05/08/2015 22:25

fwiw your comments about 'if this was to do with disability it would be removed' are a monstrous pile of shite.

YonicScrewdriver · 05/08/2015 22:41

How dare you post and sneer at their personal, thoughtful response to you?

Quiero · 05/08/2015 22:49

"MNHQ have the patience of saints when it comes to our few token non-women. If any of us regular MNers were to become such a nuisance, we would have been banned a long time ago."

^^

This, with fucking bells on.

FloraFox · 07/08/2015 23:53

Wow! The entitlement is strong with this one. MNhQ should ban all entitled pricks who want to tell women what it means to be a woman and how women should talk about being a woman.

QueenStromba · 08/08/2015 10:25

So I'm not the only one who was hoping that TIggyD had been banhammered? The optimist in me reads the end of MNHQ's email as "Take a few days to calm down but if you come back with any more of the same crap then we will have to ban you".

Jux · 08/08/2015 15:40

Oh I do hope so. So many threads go tits up, when actually they could have been really interesting, informative and might even have led the way to acceptable compromises or solutions. I do often think that that's why he does it. (I lurk, rarely post.)

MiscellaneousAssortment · 14/08/2015 23:45

I came onto this thread accidentally but have read through all 24 pages and have learnt a lot, thank you all.

In real life would call myself a trans-ally or a supporter.
But on here it's rather interesting to note that certain voices on here would insist I was a hater of trans or phobic or whatever put down they could find.

It's so sad that a massive and important issue has been twisted and subverted into a way to oust women from being women. It's bizarre and quite frankly idiotic, whose interests does it serve to pit two under privaledged groups of people against each other? I would politely suggest it's not in women's interests, nor in the trans community.

I also find the re-labelling of women as 'cis' whilst aggressively denouncing any language errors and misnaming as evil... Well the hypocrisy is staggering.

I know the OP won't deign to answer or even acknowledge the majority of voices on here saying that 'cis' is not a label we want to be defined by, but I'm fascinated to know, how does the OP live with the cognitive dissonance?

Is he aware of the double standards hes trying to enforce? Does he stand proud by his double standards, and honestly believes that trans women's voices and rights must be superior to the rights and voices of 'cis' women?

Does he in fact believe that there is something inherently unimportant about 'cis' women? And is happy to be seen as advocating for their silence and degradation of rights?

Because that's the very clear message that I'm getting from this thread.

Or does the OP somehow gloss over the gaping hole in his thinking and in fact doesn't understand that by the way he's defined the argument and politics of trans women, that he's behaving badly towards all other women? Perhaps he's too wrapped up in this crusade to see that he has quite needlessly decided that the only way to be pro-trans is to force women out of the way?

I find it difficult to interpret the OPs aggressive and unconstructive posts but it seems really unpleasant to be trying to dominate and silence all women - I was going to write 'all women who deviate from his prescriptive ideas and agree that women must come second to trans women' but actually, I've not seen any indication he even wants anyone to support and agree with him. It does feel like the purpose of the rude and domineering posts are to silence anyone but himself.

Which is not conducive to a... Discussion board, especially one which is centred around parenting, and support.

Would the OP feel more comfortable if women were no longer allowed to discuss anything to do with being a women, either through exploring individual and group identity, societal shifts and tensions, historical and contemporary cultural mores and contexts, and lived experiences? And if the OP seriously wants to ban women from being allowed to talk about themselves, how does he think that will help the trans cause?

And if he does believe it's right to silence women in this way, what does that mean for Mumsnet? Does he believe that mumsnet should not exist at all? As it's all about a safe and constructive space for parents and yes, primarily women though open to men too - which he is clearly opposed to. Or is it about policing what women are allowed to discuss? So only light chatter and hobbies allowed?

And if, considering he hates Mumsnet and everything it stands for, and his attempts to dominate and subvert the entire enterprise are (surprisingly) not succeeding, why does he carry on posting here? If he honestly supported the trans cause and wanted to help in a constructive way, why doesn't he set up his own online space where he can moderate and implement a positive and supportive environment for a group which doesn't have much of a voice and so much work needs doing in terms of helping people going through a really difficult time?

But I guess that's not going to happen, as the OP believes (or desires to) in taking away from women to give to transwomen - and wants to silence people and make sure only his voice is heard.

Which is a really odd thing to believe now I think about it!

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