Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We've been asked (in advance of primary school places allocation announcements in England, Wales and NI next week) for MNers' thoughts on the current systems for allocating primary places - so as ever we thought we'd come to you for your insights.

What do you think about how your LA allocates places? Have you found the process stressful? Do you think the difficulty/stress varies widely across the nation - and if so, which locations are particularly difficult and which are relatively stress-free? If you're in Scotland, where the system is different, do you think it works well (or not?) Would you support a change to the allocation system - and if so, how would you like to see it changed?

Any thoughts welcome. Best of luck to anyone waiting to hear about their child's place.

What more can I say really....? You make it sound as though Faith schools are acting somewhat illegitimately by setting their criteria, but they're not, they are allowed to set their own admissions criteria, just because it is primarily aimed at children of a particular faith does not make it illegal, so you can argue it's discrimination all you like, but I perosnally can sleep soundly knowing that my children are getting an amazing education at their faith school and not a substandard one at the local failing community school down the road.

But take a step back for a second, can you hand on heart say it's a fair system? You may be happy because you are benefiting from it but that doesn't mean you can't acknowledge that it's not fair.

I do get that there are a lot of people who don't agree with faith schools.
I would like to personally point out thy my children are raised with friends from different faiths and are encouraged to explore different faiths, so I don't agree (personally) that my children are not mixing with general society.
At the end of the day if the church removed all funding and there were no "faith schools" there would be schools that slipped downwards, let's face it faith schools tend to do a lot better, there is a reason for this.
If the church were happy to subsidise the education, I would send my child to a private Catholic School.
It is my right (in this country) to send my child to a school that will help her understand her faith.
I fail to see,why, whenever the conversation of faith schools comes up, the Catholics get all the stick.
I used to live in a predominately Muslim area and there was a school (state funded) that you had to prove our Muslim faith to get into, so let's not just tar the catholic religion!!

I do get that there are a lot of people who don't agree with faith schools.
I would like to personally point out thy my children are raised with friends from different faiths and are encouraged to explore different faiths, so I don't agree (personally) that my children are not mixing with general society.
At the end of the day if the church removed all funding and there were no "faith schools" there would be schools that slipped downwards, let's face it faith schools tend to do a lot better, there is a reason for this.
If the church were happy to subsidise the education, I would send my child to a private Catholic School.
It is my right (in this country) to send my child to a school that will help her understand her faith.
I fail to see,why, whenever the conversation of faith schools comes up, the Catholics get all the stick.
I used to live in a predominately Muslim area and there was a school (state funded) that you had to prove our Muslim faith to get into, so let's not just tar the catholic religion!!

I do get that there are a lot of people who don't agree with faith schools.
I would like to personally point out thy my children are raised with friends from different faiths and are encouraged to explore different faiths, so I don't agree (personally) that my children are not mixing with general society.
At the end of the day if the church removed all funding and there were no "faith schools" there would be schools that slipped downwards, let's face it faith schools tend to do a lot better, there is a reason for this.
If the church were happy to subsidise the education, I would send my child to a private Catholic School.
It is my right (in this country) to send my child to a school that will help her understand her faith.
I fail to see,why, whenever the conversation of faith schools comes up, the Catholics get all the stick.
I used to live in a predominately Muslim area and there was a school (state funded) that you had to prove our Muslim faith to get into, so let's not just tar the catholic religion!!

But that's exactly the point, Twoplus, your children have access to that faith school, and not the failing one, because you are of that particular faith. Those who aren't of that faith do no and so end up at the failing school because they don't follow a particular religion. Surely you can see that? and I say that as someone who sent her child to a Catholic school!

I'm not tarring any religion. I am opposed to any state school selecting pupils based on their parents faith.

Yes I do see that, I do, but how is that my fault. I know of people who can afford to send their child to private schools that are outstanding in every way possible! They have the money to subsidise this, I however do not, so is that their fault that their child gets a better education than mine simply because they can afford it but I can't?

Of course siblings of children who still attend the school should be given priority. It is impossible or at least very difficult to leave 2 or more children off at 2 or more schools at exactly the same time. Same goes for picking up again.

Schools select student on the basis of religion, distance, whether they have medical needs, special educational needs etc etc, that's just the way they do things, it's not always fair but that's life I'm afraid.

Twoplus3 so, you'd be OK with a NHS hospital being built near you with public funds which had a big sign up on the door saying "No Catholics Admitted"? If you needed treatment, you'd have to find a hospital somewhere else, anywhere, that did admit Catholics, but you aren't allowed at that one, even though it's pretty close to you. And you'd be OK with your neighbours saying that there isn't a problem, because after all they get treated at that hospital, and it's all worked out very nicely for them, thank you?

You'd be fine with that? Because that's what is happening with faith schools.

It's not your fault, it is the fault of the system

Ans I can't believe you are comparing it to Sen and medical needs!

We live in a part of London where there is increasing pressure on places, although not critical yet. Something I didn't realise before having to look into this, is that you can't sort out wrap around care until knowing which school DC will attend, and looking at our local admissions, it's impossible to say where in this very large borough that might be come three years' time. It could make our working lives difficult if the school is miles in the wrong direction or has no adequate wrap around care.

We also have the issue other posters have mentioned of several nearby schools being closed to us due to faith-based admissions (we are atheist). Rather than having to make some hasty careers decisions when the time comes we decided we'll have to go private. We are very lucky that's an option, although when I priced up moving within the south east instead, there wasn't much difference and of course no guarantee the new area wouldn't develop the same issue.

Ironically, the only way to be sure of a nearby school with (hopefully) nearby friends for DD is to pay - even though we will have lived at the end of the road from an excellent community school for 15 years by the time DD is 5. But the catchment is now teeny. We can't risk it.

I like the sound of the Scottish system as it would make planning in advance easier. The worst thing at the moment is the uncertainty - councils just don't seem to have a plan other than putting portacabins on playgrounds. We would also like to see a return to local authorities planning and building schools and housing developers being required to provide new school places in proportion to the housing (apparently our council's software assumes 'families don't live in flats' ).

SweetieXPie
How much funding do you thing the Church puts in? Its max 10% of the capital costs with the State picking up the other 90%. The Church funds none of the running costs, that comes from State. So for 10% of the capital costs the Church gets to control usually at least half of the admissions - Bargain!

Private schools are a totally different issue imo because the whole point of state education is it's free and everyone can use it. If you can't afford/don't want a private place then you can have a state place, but you can only have certain state places if you aren't of the right religion, which in some areas can be the difference between a local school and a failing one miles away. That I think is where the injustice lies. A state run service for everyone shouldn't discriminate on grounds of religion. The private sector is totally irrelevant.

Also, we work in education. The system is bonkers & changing job to a boarding school is looking v attractive!

We're not allowed to type "ODFOD" any more, are we?

I absolutely understand why someone would jump through the hoops to get their child into a good - or even non-shit - school. I'd support an individual parent in any activity within the rules.

I absolutely cannot support the system. The use of faith criteria could not be introduced now if they didn't already exist.

sailor, please see my post upthread. It's completely doable to have DCs at different schools, I did it with mine. I'm not saying that siblings shouldn't be allocated the same primary school, but I do think out of catchment older siblings shouldn't guarantee younger siblings a place over in catchment children.

I don't think the private system is irrelevant as round here it is currently acting as a safety valve preventing councils having to take effective action to solve the problem. Not the case everywhere, I know.

I am not sure if this is OT, but I would like to see Local Authorities across England letting summer born children start reception at CSA (i.e. the term after the child turns 5) if the parents request it.

CSA in this country is essentially the term after a child turns 5. If I decide to start my 24th August boy at CSA (which is my legal choice), he is likely to be admitted straight into year 1.

I would like more flexibility for parental requests to be permitted, so that a child can start reception at CSA (and not be forced to miss a year and go straight into year 1).

ChazBrilliant it's 100% around here. There is no chance at all - absolutely none - that you will get into a local Catholic school if you are not Catholic, and if you haven't baptised your baby by 6 months, and so on and so forth.

The school age population in lots of cities is increasing faster than schools can be built. Assumptions that a block of two-bed flats will only have say 10% with school-age children are out of date. All my local schools have increased in size by 50% or 100% in the last 5 years but every one is oversubscribed. Like most people I applied for my 6 closest schools. Got no.3 which is 25 min to walk, and luckily a good school, but it does grate that half the places at the school round the corner were reserved for people who not only baptised their child but also attended church every fortnight for two years before application. So not only non-Christians but also anyone with caring commitments, shift work, medical problems - loads of families end up excluded. I probably still wouldn't have got in being about 200m away, but it would be less galling.

sheep
I agree. I have two August born DC and would have liked some flexibility as to when they started YR. I think the Scottish system already has this. I think mine would have benefited starting a year later.