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MNHQ

Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

808 replies

RowanMumsnet · 08/04/2015 15:25

Hello

We've been asked (in advance of primary school places allocation announcements in England, Wales and NI next week) for MNers' thoughts on the current systems for allocating primary places - so as ever we thought we'd come to you for your insights.

What do you think about how your LA allocates places? Have you found the process stressful? Do you think the difficulty/stress varies widely across the nation - and if so, which locations are particularly difficult and which are relatively stress-free? If you're in Scotland, where the system is different, do you think it works well (or not?) Would you support a change to the allocation system - and if so, how would you like to see it changed?

Any thoughts welcome. Best of luck to anyone waiting to hear about their child's place.

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Twoplus3 · 08/04/2015 16:50

Oh and I'm sorry but siblings should be above other children when it comes to ranking criteria. I can imagine it would be completely impractical to have two children at two separate schools, I know it does happen occasionally but most schools would try their upmost to accommodate siblings first as they are aware of the in practicalities.

Indantherene · 08/04/2015 16:55

I think if distance is the criteria they are going to use then all applications (after LAC/statemented) should be ranked by distance and the closest 30 get a place. Siblings should only get priority if there is a tie over the last place.

Our nearest school had 25 siblings the year DD started school so of course she didn't get in. I really don't believe all those 25 families live closer than us.

They put a bulge class in the year after DD started, so loads of kids from further down our road got in. What happens when their siblings start and there isn't a bulge class?

Not looking forward to secondary applications either. 2006 was when the baby bulge started so although most of the local schools haven't had a problem up to now, there is going to be one very soon.

mellicauli · 08/04/2015 16:55

Yes - same will be happening here with secondary school places.

Personally, even though I did move to be near the school my children go to , I do think there should be 2 factors for allocating places: distance from school and time living in the area (at parish level). We should be looking to communities with our schools, not just add to house price inflation.

I went to university in Belfast. I always felt the faith school system there fuelled the sectarian divide. So I don't think the State should be involved in that kind of education - if that's what you want for your children, you should pay for it.

Twoplus3 · 08/04/2015 16:56

They are not being discrimated against, in most faith schools there is criteria that allows for non religious children, but of course they have the right to admit children of faith first. If parents are that bothered they can always have their children baptised but ofcourse for some this clearly would require too much erffort from them.

MrsHathaway · 08/04/2015 16:56

Bollocks they share the same beliefs. Their parents share the same beliefs.

Wanting your children only to mix with people who think like you is not healthy.

This topic makes me angry, can you tell?

Distance/catchment priority discriminates by household income (and skews house prices - vicious circle).

Faith priority discriminates by parental dedication. They don't measure faith, but compliance.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/04/2015 16:57

Completely agree, mellicauli. If you want a specialist education, like a faith-based one, you should pay for it yourself, and not get the state to organise and pay for it to the detriment of other children.

Sirzy · 08/04/2015 16:57

One of the reasons I didn't want to send DS to a faith school because it is so important for children to mix with children from as wide a range of cultures and belief systems as the local demographics will allow.

But realistically is it fair from where I live - as a C of E I would have the choice of 2 schools (community primary or c of e)

Catholics would have the choice of 4 (1 community, 3 catholic)

People who don't want faith schools get no choice.

Is that fair?

Twoplus3 · 08/04/2015 16:58

But why should siblings miss out just because your child is an only? You seriously can't expect most parents to be able to get two or even three+ children to different primary schools for 9am.

youmakemydreams · 08/04/2015 16:59

The thing about saying any old
Schools in scotland is pretty dismissive actually. From my own experience both employed and as a parent there doesn't seem to be the same angst about failing schools up here. I'm not saying there aren't bad schools but I see on here about so many parents worrying about failing schools It just isn't an issue up here to the same extent. And in bigger cities you may be in the catchment for more than one school. I live in a very small town and we have 3 primary schools here so even here you can be in catchment for more than one at a time as there is overlap.
There are plenty Catholic achools most others are non denominational.

PtolemysNeedle · 08/04/2015 17:00

I don't have a problem with faith schools being state funded, but I think admission criteria based on faith is totally wrong. Faith schools should have to use the same criteria as any other school.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/04/2015 17:01

They are not being discrimated against, in most faith schools there is criteria that allows for non religious children, but of course they have the right to admit children of faith first. If parents are that bothered they can always have their children baptised but ofcourse for some this clearly would require too much erffort from them.

If you treat a child less well than another child because of their faith, then you are discriminating against that child. That's what discrimination means.

And as for baptising their child - are you seriously telling atheist parents that they should lie to the church and to their children, or parents of other faiths that they should forcibly convert in order to access local state education, and that if they don't do so it's because they can't be bothered?

Do you realise that not everyone is a Catholic?

Twoplus3 · 08/04/2015 17:02

But my children do mix with children from other faiths and of no faith for that matter. In my daughters year there are at least 10 non Catholics and they also mix with other chidkren from a variety of backgrounds when they go to brownies, beavers, ballet etc etc. I chose to send them to a faith school primarily as I wanted tnem to learn more about their faith and it just so happened to be the best performing school by a mile in our area.

forago · 08/04/2015 17:02

Now that there is effectively no choice for large numbers of pupils it is time to remove faith as an admissions criteria. Faith is something for the home setting to teach if they feel it is appropriate.

Could not agree with this more. I think it is disgusting that we effectively have a 2 tier state system in this country where only certain children are allowed to even apply for better funded and generally better performing schools depending on whether of not their parents happen to be (or pretend to be in the VAST majority of cases) a particular religion. When I tell friends in other countries about this they are genuinely gobsmacked that we have free schools but that only some children can go to. My child might grow up to be the next pope - but he is disallowed from attending swathes of very good schools because I happen to be an atheist. Disgusting imo.

In a nutshell the problem with primary schools in England is that they vary so widely in quality, ethos and clientele. it's not like that in other countries.

forago · 08/04/2015 17:03

Completely agree, mellicauli. If you want a specialist education, like a faith-based one, you should pay for it yourself, and not get the state to organise and pay for it to the detriment of other children.

yes, yes, yes.

Twoplus3 · 08/04/2015 17:05

No I'm not suggesting this at all, I was simply stating a fact, that of they decided to baptise their child then they would then stand a better chance of being admitted to a catholic school, that's a given really though.

TormundsMember · 08/04/2015 17:05

I've lived in villages so it's not particularly stressful as they just go to the village school (and they have extra classes if a large year group), the year groups are getting larger though, there are 76 in reception but only about 50 in the other years in the school.
The stressful part though is that we moved in May before ds1 started school and instead of being placed in at the village school, he was placed at another one several miles away until we could prove our address. (The other one was actually a better school but due to not driving there was no way I could get him there).
When I explained I couldn't get him there and asked if they could tell me if he would be placed at local one when we had proof of address they said no, he would just go on the waiting list.
I actually started looking at moving house again (renting) so I could get him to school!
He was offered a place at the local one the same day we sent the necessary documents in.
It really pissed me off that they couldn't just say he'd have a place once documents were received instead of leading me to believe he wouldn't!
So that was stressful. I do think all schools should have to accommodate all children in catchment even if this means getting more staff or building more classrooms (the secondary school near me is doing just that).
It would be so much simpler if kids just went to their nearest school (unless there were specific reasons why they couldn't).

Twoplus3 · 08/04/2015 17:07

Why should we pay for it though? It's like saying if you want your child to attend the only outstanding rated school in the town, whilst every other one is in special measures then you should have to pay for it, what rubbish. I contribute heavily like do all other parents to put children's school, YOU are not paying for it!

m0therofdragons · 08/04/2015 17:08

We did ours online but then had to print a form to fill in and send so we meet the criteria. This seemed barmy - whybrid can't it all be done online. I'm not convinced they'll match up the forms and we ticked the box to say they have a twin sister but there was nowhere to put that child's name. Presumably they'll check surname and address bit on not convinced. Slightly concerned I'll end up with all 3 at different schools. Currently I'm ignoring it and hoping for the best.

TheFormidableMrsC · 08/04/2015 17:08

I have found it frustrating. I was allowed to choose a nursery place for my DS as he was undergoing assessment for ASD. He eventually settled so very well and has blossomed. I have now discovered that the rules have changed and he will now not necessarily be given a place in reception. I am desperately disappointed as it has been such a life changing experience for him and he has made a few friends (with difficulty, he has Aspergers), loves the school and is proud to attend it. I know how difficult it's going to be for him to move again if we don't get the place. I did write to the admissions team and ask why I was allowed to choose a place while the diagnostic process was taking place but then that choice was going to be revoked, it seemed ludicrous. They just responded that it was "the rules". Bloody rules. However, I guess it is better to wait and see than start panicking just yet....Hmm

tiggytape · 08/04/2015 17:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/04/2015 17:09

But the fact is, Twoflower, that this fact is irrelevant for people who are atheist or of another faith.

And the schools still discriminate against children who have parents who are atheist or another faith, by treating them differently. It's immoral.

Would you agree that all faith criteria should be abolished for all state faith schools, so that all children are treated equally during the admissions process?

m0therofdragons · 08/04/2015 17:09

Sorry for random word - cuddling an ill child while writing on my phone.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/04/2015 17:09

Gah, meant to put * there and put ^ there by mistake...

Sirzy · 08/04/2015 17:09

Can you really not see how a system which gives priority to a parents beliefs is unfair?

forago · 08/04/2015 17:12

Don't be so ridiculous - I cant just "decide to baptise" my child, because if I rocked up a a church I would be questioned and interogated about my background and faith - especially if the right church for a local school that everyone wants to go to. Any vicar or priest worth their salt would quite rightly say no because they would see right through me and realise I was just doing it to get my child into a good school - as opposed to being bussed to a failing school 2 towns away. Yes it really is that stark a choice where I live (Surrey) - which is why there are so many private schools - which all the smug people in church schools castigate as being "unfair" and "2 tier"

Plus round here, it is not just a question of being baptised. It and has to be in the right faith, in the right diocese, and the vicar/priest has to submit a recomendation - which he/she will only do if the family have been regular church goers for many years and attend sunday school every week. Apart from anything else, why should my children be discriminated against becasue they like to play sport on Sunday mornings?

It would also make me a massive, massive hypocrite.