Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We've been asked (in advance of primary school places allocation announcements in England, Wales and NI next week) for MNers' thoughts on the current systems for allocating primary places - so as ever we thought we'd come to you for your insights.

What do you think about how your LA allocates places? Have you found the process stressful? Do you think the difficulty/stress varies widely across the nation - and if so, which locations are particularly difficult and which are relatively stress-free? If you're in Scotland, where the system is different, do you think it works well (or not?) Would you support a change to the allocation system - and if so, how would you like to see it changed?

Any thoughts welcome. Best of luck to anyone waiting to hear about their child's place.

Do Scottish schools not limit class sizes then?

Archery my undemanding is if the only school eith a place is over 3 miles away then transport has to be provided.

Not Scottish no

In the sunny Royal Borough and many other places around England we still have First, Middle and High schools.

If the school has been allocated against the wishes of the parents yes Annie.

Understanding even

Oh, and I do understand why siblings are given priority, but as the parent of an only child it pisses me off a bit when my only child is shoved to the back of the queue for the crime of not having older brothers or sisters. It doesn't really seem fair.

Huh - thanks, Sirzy and Mrsflannel.

Do Scottish schools not limit class sizes then?

Yes. 25 for P1-3 and composite classes, and 33 for P4-7.

This has caused a massive problem because about 10 years ago they started knocking down a lot of schools and building new ones. The new ones now don't have enough room so need to get huts, close their ICT rooms and music rooms etc.

We are nervously waiting for next week.
Although my oldest DD is in the school we no longer live in the catchment and our school do not prioritise siblings over catchment
We are RC (practising) and wanted to point out that the reason faith schools have such a strict criteria is because for every letter the priest signs (to confirm you are attending Mass) the church donates money towards the school, therefore if you do not attend Mass (and donate each week) the church is effectively funding your child using donations from other parishioners.
I am in full agreement that faith schools need to stick to this criteria, obviously if you don't agree then you would need to send your child to a state school with no religious affiliation.
Although I did see a post from a mum stating that she has three faith schools around her, I am quite shocked as our faith schools are all miles away and tend to be few and far between!

So if 26 Children live in the catchment then what happens?

I think faith should not be part of the criteria.

When we bought our house a huge factor was that it had a good none faith school nearby

If 26 children register for P1 the classes have to be split. You'd probably get a P1 and a P1/2 composite class.

If you move into the area and the class is full you have to wait until a space comes up, so you would be offered another school.

Do you think it would work better, SweetieXPie, if all faith schools were private? Because the problem where I live is that most state schools are faith school, but most local children aren't of the right faith, so are dispersed all over the place, while the "correct" children travel in. It all seems so ridiculous - and yet, in theory, we have (almost) enough school places locally. We just aren't allowed to use them.

If the faith schools went private, the the local council would be forced to make proper provision for other children, and the local balance of state schools wouldn't be so skewed.

I live in Scotland but am (extremely vaguely) contemplating moving to England, but with a 3.5 year old DD, it would just be too much of a worry to get my head round the English schooling admission system.

Right now, as far as I know, all I need to do is show up at my local school in January with DD's birth certificate, then she'll be all set for school in August!

If there is 26 kids in the local catchment area starting P1 in Scotland then they start a 2nd class. Often a composite with a P2 class. This may mean creating a new classroom, often the school has spare rooms as the role rises and falls. These rooms are often music/drama/library rooms but get changed back to classrooms as the need arises. Or there are portacbins in the playground. The council has to supply a place at the local school in P1.

In Scotland if new housing is planned in an area then school capacity is looked at before planning permission is granted. If the school is full then the house builders have to help fund the cost of an additional school.

"the church is effectively funding your child using donations from other parishioners"

Maybe church schools should charge fees to parents rather than rely on parish contributions?

The Scottish system actually sounds harder to sort from the schools POV then as they have little consistency in numbers/amount of classes and staff. Must be a logicistical nightmare for the school.

In Scotland if new housing is planned in an area then school capacity is looked at before planning permission is granted.

Someone skipped that one here! Our local school used to be relatively small (150-170) and then hundreds of houses were built. They're bursting at the seams now, and the hundreds of young couples who bought the houses' all seem to have children about 3-4 (and siblings, of course). No one knows where they will all go!

Everyone has a pfb, so everyone suffers "no siblings" at least once. The logistics of getting primary-aged children to different schools at the same time do make sibling priority logical.

However, I agree with pps that the sibling link shouldn't be more important than proximity. I'd support prioritising siblings within catchment only.

I have no problem with faith schools - I spent a couple of years at one. I have a huge problem with state funding for faith schools, and faith selection for state schools, particularly where the faith selection proportion exceeds the faith funding proportion (eg church pays for 5%, but 22% get in on faith criteria).

If you think faith schools are more successful simply because of the faith link, rather than the additional layer of admissions selection... I pity you.

I live in rural Cheshire not footballer belt where all the schools within sensible logistical distance are Good or Outstanding, and very few are oversubscribed. If you're in catchment, you get in. If you aren't, you probably get in, but otherwise you end up at an equally good school within a mile or two (only the big villages are oversubscribed, and they typically have more than one school).

This means admissions is mildly interesting, rather than nail-biting. Still looking forward to getting past next Thursday, mind you.

Personally though I wouldn't want to send my child to just any old school, and it sounds like this would be the case if we lived in Scotland. And regards the religious criteria I think this should remain in affect for both RC and CofE schools. I like the fact that my children go to school with children who are from the Catholic community and whilst all children are different, they share the same beliefs which is nice.

But you are okay with other children being discriminated against, though, Twoplus3?

well we are UK expats living overseas at the moment and planning on returning this summer so extra stressful as we don't have a UK address yet so that pretty much rules out any schools which are over subscribed because as soon as they start applying the criteria we would be out on distance. In fact some LEAs don't even let you apply until you have a UK address unless you are forces or diplomats (which we are not).

We have changed our plans on location several times based on likelihood of getting a place (nevermind a good place) as some areas are just so overcrowded we would not stand a chance.

I understand why they have this rule as would be a waste of time and not fair to those already in the UK but it does add an extra frisson of tension and worry, not sure what could be done about it though.

Bottomline is that the Govt has not built enough schools or created enough spaces in areas where there is a need, the stats are out there as to population levels, birth rates etc they have chosen not to act on them and now there is chronic overcrowding in many areas.

I just signed up and my DC's have got into the school of our choice without any fuss or bother (Wales)

I well remember the confusion over how the system worked when DS was small. I visited loads of school before choosing the local one which was also the on,y one where the head teacher crouched down to listen to DS.

In my current area we have had a glut of schools in Special Measures/Requires Improvement. It was so bad that we now have an Education Excellence Panel chaired by a former head of OFSTED. I was very impressed when I heard him speak, the bulk of which seemed to be "would I be happy if my grandchildren came to this school? If not why would I expect any other parent/grandparent to accept it".
Thought he was brilliant.
Upshot is that local schools are gradually improving.

I was so grateful at secondary level as by then DS had a Statement of SEN which meant I could choose any school I felt could meet his needs. I went for the smallest local school I could find.