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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

OFFICIAL MNHQ THREAD on posts about suicide, troll-hunting and related matters

833 replies

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:10

Hello

There have been so many threads about this over the past few days, and so many divergent points of view - and so much upset - that we'd really like to have the discussion in one place rather than in many different threads all over the boards.

For those who haven't heard yet: we are actively reviewing our policy about threads regarding suicidal feelings and suicidal intent. We are seeking expert input from outside organisations including the Samaritans. Once we have that we will come back and have a further discussion with MNers about the way forward.

We'll be here to talk on the thread throughout the day, but do please note that we WILL delete troll-hunting posts for all the obvious reasons. So PLEASE do not use this thread to make insinuations about identifiable posters - keep it general please.

Re: Wombat: we understand that some reporters had concerns, but at the same time this poster had been around for years with a very consistent posting history. We absolutely do not have any concrete reason to disbelieve her. However, her thread had been immensely upsetting and triggering for many users, and has prompted a site-wide discussion about how we handle these threads. Once her husband had posted that she was at home with him and under the care of RL professionals it really seemed best all round to delete the thread.

We contacted Wombat at the time to explain our deletion and we still feel that for many very good reasons this is best sorted out off-board between us and her; we've asked her again to reply to our email and we will happily take it from there.

We also think that this whole case is a very good illustration of why we have no-trollhunting rules. We understand that some of you find them frustrating, but for every correct troll-call, there's an incorrect one. Being called a troll in public when you're giving an honest account of deeply upsetting real-life circumstances can be devastating for people.

Equally, we do 'get' that there are a lot posters and threads at the moment that seem deeply suspicious. We are on the front foot with this and have been being pretty pro-active at closing things down when they are reported to us and when we can see that things aren't adding up, particularly if they are new users.

So we need you to keep reporting and NOT break troll-hunting rules on the boards unless MNHQ itself has said publicly that we are confident that someone was a deliberate trouble-maker.

The namechange/sock-puppeting thing is extremely easy for us to spot when it's reported. It's not a judgement call - it's black and white and it's the work of a moment for us to spot it and deal with it.

OP posts:
Wereweatherwool · 23/10/2014 10:46

The rules do work IMHO.

I have been on both ends and posted about a hideous RL situation on MN and got called troll and shouted down left, right and centre - it made me feel about this big and i think sometimes people invest too much time fighting and shouting troll and not actually respecting each other.

I was also the victim of DV and the support I got will stay with me forever.

Drama does happen in life and when the chips are down, it's nice to have an anon place to come and rant and have some support. Things are better for me now and i try and pay forward the support i was given.

If it smells like a troll, i report and walk away. That system does work if everyone would trust that MN would deal with it. I imagine MNHQ can see a fair amount more than we can, at least I hope they can or we're all doomed Wink

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 10:47

I imagine mnet makes a big bundle of cash out of this forum and you mean to tell me that they can't be arsed to monitor it during the night when incidents are more likely to occur??? do they leave the prefects in charge? I was bullied horribly by the prefects at school.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:47

@WannaBe

"We've got the Night Watch, who are there to zap egregious overnight stuff and have mostly been doing a good job of it as far as we can see - but we're happy to beef this up if there's a consensus that there need to be more of them." that thread from last night was still there this morning. I reported it at around 12:30 and it was being discussed openly on that nightwatch thread and yet it's only just gone.

So are you telling us that the night watch team are so busy deleting general spammy threads that it took eight hours to get round to one which was hugely triggering at best because it was reminiscent of the previous thread, and deeply dubious at worst and contained a completely different version of events to the previous one and would have been a good indication as to its authenticity?

We'll have a look

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DrankSangriaInThePark · 23/10/2014 10:48

Don't you wish LEM?

They are, I believe, common or garden MNers, but prob abroad so around when most of us are offline.

So if anyone wants to try their hand at trolling, night time is the right time.

Which I believe has been amply proven the last few days....

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 10:48

I would say NOT.
I am sure Samaritans should be our/your default reference in this case. No one knows of other MH issues the person has.
It should be thread locked with the Samaritans no posted on it

And night watch people should be able to lock.

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 10:51

Why the hell are mnhq leaving the site in the hands of volunteers after hours??? Don't they make enough money to pay properly trained and invested people to do the night shift??? Incredulou

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 10:52

if they employed a MH worker they still wouldn't have all the info to hand.

This is a parenting website last time I looked. Not MH

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:52

Here's the thread on which we announced and explained Night Watch. It's been working very well so far and egregious overnight stuff has been getting zapped very quickly.

OP posts:
RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:53

@BettyMoody

I would say NOT. I am sure Samaritans should be our/your default reference in this case. No one knows of other MH issues the person has. It should be thread locked with the Samaritans no posted on it

And night watch people should be able to lock.

Thanks Betty. NW do lock things until we can have a look. To be fair they were probably genuinely unsure what to do about last night's thread - this is a very tricky situation.

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CuttedUpPear · 23/10/2014 10:55

I totally agree with what bettymoody said about nightwatch being able to lock threads, and posting the Samaritans' contact on it.

MNHQ what do you think this?

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 10:55

oh right, sorry. I am rarely on here at night.

WannaBe · 23/10/2014 10:55

tbh it doesn't take a lot of training to become a forum moderator and to be able to look for the things which would make someone potentially identifyable as a fake, or to be able to lock threads etc. I imagine that the likes of rowan etc who work at mn hq by day have the moderation side as a small part of their role, whereas the night watch team will be essentially on call to do just that. so I can see why they wouldn't necessarily be paid individuals - they are most likely members themselves who happen to be around overnight rather than people who spend their entire night just looking at threads.

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 10:55

ANY suicide thread - Samaritans and lock.

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 10:57

So are there ANY paid members of staff on duty overnight? Yes or no?

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:58

@CuttedUpPear

I totally agree with what bettymoody said about nightwatch being able to lock threads, and posting the Samaritans' contact on it.

MNHQ what do you think this?

yy they can and do lock threads. We can absolutely ask them to routinely lock suicidal threads and add a link to the Samaritans - but of course that will mean that any user (including absolutely nailed-on long-term MNers) will not be able to use MN to talk to people if they're feeling suicidal overnight.

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WannaBe · 23/10/2014 10:58

"
To be fair they were probably genuinely unsure what to do about last night's thread - this is a very tricky situation." presumably though you have some kind of nightwatch staff mailing list or some such? in which case wouldn't it be prudent to make them aware of current issues such as posters you have suspended/threads you've deleted and wy?

MiddletonPink · 23/10/2014 10:58

HQ can't win.

I'm saddened in a way that wombat is real. After the thread was halted posters have said she was a troll. It made me doubt what she had written too.

But HQ have know reason to doubt her. That's good enough for me.

And like somebody upthread said MN is not compulsory.

I'm glad to see that HQ are revising their thoughts on suicide threads.

ElliotLovesGrub · 23/10/2014 10:59

Reading some of the responses, I'm wondering now why we (including me) expect MNHQ to do so much? It's only a discussion forum not a mental health service or a health service or anything that owes anybody anything. It's a chat forum. Why do we expect them to be responsible for grown adults and our feelings or vulnerability? This has got me thinking.

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 10:59

i don't think this is part of the Mn remit, talking people down. And is a dangerous path to tread. They might be long term mumsnetters but they cannot, CANNOT rely on advice from strangers on here. ( unless about mum boots obv Grin )

It is very dangerous indeed.

www.samaritans.org/

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 11:00

this It's only a discussion forum not a mental health service or a health service or anything that owes anybody anything. It's a chat forum.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 11:00

@WannaBe

tbh it doesn't take a lot of training to become a forum moderator and to be able to look for the things which would make someone potentially identifyable as a fake, or to be able to lock threads etc. I imagine that the likes of rowan etc who work at mn hq by day have the moderation side as a small part of their role, whereas the night watch team will be essentially on call to do just that. so I can see why they wouldn't necessarily be paid individuals - they are most likely members themselves who happen to be around overnight rather than people who spend their entire night just looking at threads.

Nearly WannaBe, but me and the rest of the team are full-time on community/site duties (ie purely on replying to reports and looking at Talk-related issues) all day every day. We are also on call up until late in the evening.

We don't have paid mods overnight, no - never have had. We did have a big discussion about this before we started the Night Watch and sod's law can't find the thread to link to right now

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RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 11:03

[quote BettyMoody]i don't think this is part of the Mn remit, talking people down. And is a dangerous path to tread. They might be long term mumsnetters but they cannot, CANNOT rely on advice from strangers on here. ( unless about mum boots obv Grin )

It is very dangerous indeed.

www.samaritans.org/[/quote]

Thanks Betty and we know lots of people agree with you on that one. There are also some who feel very strongly that it has helped them in the past though. And this is the cleft stick we are stuck in at the moment (and why we want to know what people think, so that once we've got expert advice from the Samaritans we can put it together with what users have said and try to come up with something measured and sensible.)

OP posts:
EdwinDrood · 23/10/2014 11:04

I hope Wombat is ok, no matter what.

Seems to me that a lot of the issues raised stem from the fact people keep starting threads asking "what happened with xxx" - which does feel like protracted troll hunting. If people mailed HQ when they were curious, rather than dragging everything up again, we probably could have avoided last night.

LEMmingaround · 23/10/2014 11:05

I think i've seen enough. Thanks for the replies Hmm

BettyMoody · 23/10/2014 11:05

it might have helped them- but look at the shit its caused now.
Think MN needs to decide WHAT it is, and not be something to everyone?

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