Isn't about Fattism was added to the list of prohibited 'isms'?

[Fideliney]

I've read one too many rather squawky assertions recently on MN that 'skinny bashing' has the same socio-cultural connotations and (ahem) heft as fattism. It doesn't.

Isn't fattism the only socially widespread discrimination/ hatred NOT specifically banned on MN now? Have I got that right?

I've been mulling this overnight and things are routinely posted about overweight people on MN which, if the words 'asian' or 'gay' were substituted for 'fat' or 'obese', nobody would even attempt to defend.

I know haterz gotta hate or whatever the expression is but could we just leave them something insipid and harmless like nylon hating or persecution of cockroaches to get on with and make a clean sweep of the 'isms'?

I think that must be nice. So shoot me for saying so.

I think it must be nice too Hedge

People really do HATE overweight people don't they?

But there's the problem. I suspect most people can eat substantial amounts without piling weight on.
So what does 'eat what you want' actually mean.
I just don't believe that you mean most fat people can't eat a slice of cake once or twice a week without going up a dress size.

Nerf does it matter what someone's food intake is?

Erm well this is a thread about weight... Are you just saying don't comment on anything to do with weight, and let people eat what they want even if that involves three litres of mint choc chip ice cream?
This is just a nuts thread. I have no idea where you see any 'fattist' comments anyway - being overweight is pretty much guaranteed to get you support on mumsnet.

Nerf Not everyone can eat substantial amounts. I am enormously overweight, when I began to change my eating to a healthier approach with the help of the bootcamp threads I weighed roughly double my "ideal" weight (although I must say I have never weighed that little even when I was a size 10!) I generally eat healthily and am losing weight slowly, around 3 stone over 18months, but last weekend I had an indian takeaway followed by ice cream and 3 days later I am still 4lb up That will take me a couple of weeks to lose so please don't think it is easy.

I guess if it doesn't affect you personally you just don't see it, Nerf. MN is full of anti fat people comments. There seems to be a general assumption that fat people are fair game for abuse.

Scouse, I apologise for substantial - I was trying to think of a word for ''normal but not lettuce leaves all day'' and congratulations on the three stone.

I think that must be nice. So shoot me for saying so.
I think it must be nice too Hedge

Yes - it's very nice:

It's wonderful that I find it almost impossible to find clothes that fit me, even basics like vest tops and jeans. I used to live in Next jeans. Can't wear them now unless I wear a belt as the 8's are the same size the 10's used to be and they don't do 6's in a long leg. Size six vests from Primark are OK but come up too short - the clothing industry thinks that size 6 / 8 people can't be any taller than 5'4". If I want knee high boots I either have to pay ridiculous money for made to measure ones or search high and low for ones that have laces that I can pull as tight as possible.

It's great that my lack of body fat means that I am cold on an almost daily basis even in the height of summer and that I bruise incredibly easily and suffer from lack of energy unless I eat constantly.

It makes me feel really great about myself that my bones stick out and if I am even a little bit bloated, or even just full after a decent meal my tummy sticks out so disproportionately that I look like some kind of famine victim.

I love the fact that I have absolutely no lee-way so that if I lose any weight due to stress / illness / emotional upset I am at risk of serious health problems inlcuding infertility, weakened bones, low immune system. Which basically means that while I can eat what I like, I have to be incredibly careful in terms of my stress levels and emotional health.

I couldn't be happier that I was consistently bullied over my weight when I was a child / teenager and still receive snidey comments from people veiled as compliments and that I apparently just have to suck it up because they have confidence issues which somehow makes it all OK and that if I do say anything then it is because I clearly "HATE overweight people"

But all of this is OK, because it is 'nice' that I can eat what I want without putting on any weight.

Honestly!

Nerf does it matter what someone's food intake is?

I know you asked Nerf that question but I think food intake is very relevant on a thread about so called fattism. It's important to discuss food intake and the reasons behind excessive fatty and sugary good intake if you are trying to dispel myths about weight problems.

Bloom you really are on a mission to interpret everything that is said in the way that suits you aren't you?

Nobody was saying you hated overweight people.

It's important to discuss food intake and the reasons behind excessive fatty and sugary good intake if you are trying to dispel myths about weight problems.

No it's not. Some overweight is linked to food intake, some isn't. It isn't your business or mine anyway.

We just have to be polite and respectful to people.

nobody is happy with their body and pretty much everyone has propensities to certain health problems if they deviate from the middle

everybody is going to hear smart remarks about their weight and body.

but there is a social stigma to being fat that just isn't there when it comes to being skinny

slim women are the beauty symbols in our culture, i don't think anyone can argue with that

there isn't a multi million dollar industry devoted to getting people to put on weight

none of the very slim women I know actually want to put on weight per se, they want curvier boobs and hips sure, but not a bigger waist

snide remarks aimed at slim women are motivated by envy, smart remarks aimed at heavy women are motivated by disgust

there is a moral equation going on here. like a puritan, ascetic thing, which is odd in a decidedly non puritan culture

people approve of slimness in a way they dont approve of heaviness, its wrong to equate posters on mn kicking against the pricks and attempting to bolster themselves with societal approval

none of that is much use to the individual thin person who gets a snide remark, but its not the same thing as a fat person in a fat hating culture getting an equally snide remark

i don't think eating behaviour is very well understood at all generally. people should read "fat is a feminist issue" by susie orbach

lots of assumptions here about what and how people of all sizes must be eating or not eating

Of course there is a social stigma to being very slim. Maybe you just haven't experienced it?

No - you just juxtaposed that little nugget next to a comment in support of what hedge said to me about it being nice to eat what I want.

If you didn't intend it as a dig, perhaps you need to be more mindful of the context in which you say things - it was either intentional or careless.

And as for:

We just have to be polite and respectful to people.

Can I suggest you start by not referring to people who think thin bashing is as nasty and damaging as fat bashing as "squawkey"!

No it's not. Some overweight is linked to food intake, some isn't. It isn't your business or mine anyway.

Most weight issues (whether underweight or overweight) are linked directly to the amount and type of food consumed. The majority of the 68% of people who are now overweight or obese are that way due to the food that they consume. Similarly most people who are underweight are that way due of the food that they consume. There are very few weight issues at both ends of the scales that cannot be changed due to a change in food consumption habits. Yes, there are exceptions to the rules and some people at both ends of the scales have medical issues that mean changes in eating habits will not have a huge impact on their weight, but those people are a small minority.
If it isn't anybody's business then perhaps starting this thread was not a good idea.

Bloomin - no-one has suggested that any of the problems you mention are alright. But it is true that being able to eat what you like without worrying about putting on weight is nice. It just is.
And thank you for explaining the problems you have.

oh meeow funnyossity

no there isn't. there are individuals with bees in their bonnets, sure, but being slim is seen as aspirational.

Tweasels that is one wise post! 11.06.50

I wish I had a quid for every time I have said that I wish I had the same relationship with food (ridiculously unhealthy and not based on hunger at all) as I do with drink (which praise be, is really very rational and healthy and , who knew, very often linked to thirst!).

I would no sooner tell a person who is overweight/underweight that all they need to do is move more (or less) /eat less (or more) than I would tell an alcoholic that all they need to do is exert a bit of willpower/drink less.

But my totally unscientific observation is that overweight people come in for FAR more ridicule/gawping than their thin counterparts.

If it isn't anybody's business then perhaps starting this thread was not a good idea.

Why? Do we insist on being allowed to rake the exact food consumption of anorexics before agreeing to extend them respect?

No.

It's the obese among us who are the drain on the NHS. It's those who are bleeding it dry.

I see whole families with matching obesity. I can never have respect for them. It passes on from generation to generation in many cases

"I can never have respect for them."

how horrible

Being anorexic is not the same as being thin. Just as being fat does not automatically equate to having a mental health disorder.

Nice.