Isn't about Fattism was added to the list of prohibited 'isms'?

[Fideliney]

I've read one too many rather squawky assertions recently on MN that 'skinny bashing' has the same socio-cultural connotations and (ahem) heft as fattism. It doesn't.

Isn't fattism the only socially widespread discrimination/ hatred NOT specifically banned on MN now? Have I got that right?

I've been mulling this overnight and things are routinely posted about overweight people on MN which, if the words 'asian' or 'gay' were substituted for 'fat' or 'obese', nobody would even attempt to defend.

I know haterz gotta hate or whatever the expression is but could we just leave them something insipid and harmless like nylon hating or persecution of cockroaches to get on with and make a clean sweep of the 'isms'?

[BloominNora]

I haven't said it's okay. I have said very clearly that all comments based on size/body are rude and are not ok.

But you have clearly said, several times, that comments about being fat are worse than comments about being thin.

If you had started a post saying that you think MN should come down hard on people who are rude about others appearance, and then used fat bashing as one example of many, I may have had some sympathy - but you didn't - you're opening salvo was to say that fat bashing was worse than thin bashing which makes you as pig ignorant as the people you are complaining about.

[PetulaGordino]

any comments about someone's weight that are negative (or backhanded compliments) are going to make people feel like shit.

if they are towards someone who is slim (or technically underweight), but either (a) doesn't want to be the shape they are but can't do anything about it, or (b) likes the shape they are and may or may not work hard at maintaining it - they are going to be pissed off

if they are towards someone who is overweight and either (a) overeats for whatever reason - likes food, has emotional or mental health problems, struggles to put together healthy meals etc, or (b) has a medical condition - they are also going to be pissed off

for none of these groups of people do negative or veiled negative comments help in any way. it's just about being kind to one another

[HercShipwright]

Don't forget the nasty use of the word 'squawky'. The OP is indeed as pig ignorant as the people she is complaining about, she is also rude and engaged in an agenda which is all about denying the issues of others in order to refocus attention on her own issue. She has been doing this in several threads, two of which were (apparently - one of them is a bit nutty) started specifically for people who had been subjected to 'skinny bashing' to talk about how that made them feel. Agenda much?

[PetulaGordino]

also, there are plenty of people who have disordered eating or who are unhappy about their relationship with food but aren't taken seriously by HCPs because they are a "normal" weight

[Hedgehogsrule]

Thin people shouldn't be abused either. But at least they can take comfort from the fact that they have a far lower chance of getting cancer, etc. Fat people feel awful about being fat, and being abused about how ugly they are is just one aspect of that. Plus, it must be great to be able to eat what you like without worrying about putting on weight.

[Nerf]

Really? All thin people eat what they like without putting on weight?
This is the kind of silly thinking that makes thinner/slim people lose patience with fatter people.
We don't eat what we want - we generally restrict out eating to sensible amounts.

[Inthedarkaboutfashion]

I haven't said it's okay. I have said very clearly that all comments based on size/body are rude and are not ok.

You might not have directly made those comments, but you have come across as though you see it as more acceptable for skinny comments to be directed at people if they are in fact of normal weight than it is for people to make fat comments at overweight people.
If you feel that neither comment is acceptable then to should have made it very clear that you think any comments said to anybody about their weight or body shape is wrong, rather than alluding that one type of comment is worse than the other.

[Inthedarkaboutfashion]

Hedgehogs : there are lots of medical problems related to being underweight too.
Not every underweight or slim person can eat what's they like without gaining weight. That is a massive inaccurate assumption.

[Tweasels]

I think there are huge misconceptions on here and in RL about being overweight.

I think if you have a healthy relationship with food you probably don't "get it". There is an assumption that being overweight is a choice and therefore you deserve to be berrated for making that choice.

It's not a choice, why the fuck would anyone choose to do something that makes them miserable. Half the problem is the shame and disgust overweight people can feel for themselves, perpetuated by knowing that everyone else thinks they are disgusting. This causes a cycle of self loathing sabotage behaviour. What's the point in eating healthily? You're not worth it.

Of course this isn't everyone but it rings true in a lot if the overweight people I know. You cannot make positive changes until you learn to like yourself and how can you like yourself when you feel disgusting?

Imagine being that person, then imagine reading that you're not really a size 16, you must really be a 20 because all the clothes shops are wrong. Stupid fat people fucking up the clothes industry. Being told eat less, move more. Being told to eat really unhealthy food which in the long term will make you fatter not thinner. Being told you must be lazy, weak, a bad parent, have no self control. Unless I've missed something these do not sound like factors that would motivate me.

And don't even get me started on the diet industry whoI believe have payed a huge part in causing weight issues in many women.

There is fattism on here. There is also skinny bashing but it all comes from the same place. Women wanting to feel better about themselves. Of course an overweight woman wants to believe curves are nicer. Of course a slim woman wants to believe her toned body is more attractive.

What we need to achieve is people being healthy regardless of shape, having a normal healthy attitude toward food and to stop putting other women down to make themselves feel better. If you felt happy in your own skin, you'd feel no need to worry about what other people look like.

Those of you who are not too thin/too fat have no hang ups etc maybe need to realise that just because you know how to be health/have control doesn't mean everyone else does.

[Fideliney]

Herc what on earth are you talking about?

[PetulaGordino]

that is the point really

negative and veiled negative comments regarding appearance are hurtful, and serve only to benefit the person who makes them (how, i'm not quite sure, but presumably they feel better in some way, or perhaps they just think that blurting out their opinions is the best way to get through the day)

[PetulaGordino]

x-post with tweasels, who is expressing much better than i did how many people who are overweight experience life

[Fideliney]

Really? All thin people eat what they like without putting on weight?

Who said that Nerf?

also, there are plenty of people who have disordered eating or who are unhappy about their relationship with food but aren't taken seriously by HCPs because they are a "normal" weight

That is a very very good point Petula

[HercShipwright]

There are as many misconceptions about being underweight, or small.

Not all slim women are toned, incidentally. That's another misconception. But it's quite a telling one.

[PetulaGordino]

there are differences between the twatty things that people say to slim people and overweight people. the comments towards slim people are usually about the commenter being envious about their size. it is very, very rare that an overweight person would receive comments from that pov (beyond perhaps an envy of big boobs, which may be in the same proportion regardless of their size). tbh, i don't think people should be making such personal remarks if they don't know the person well enough to understand whether such comments are welcome and how to say them in a kind way.

[Fideliney]

Not all slim women are toned, incidentally. That's another misconception. But it's quite a telling one.

It's not telling at all Herc. It's known as 'the bleeding obvious'.

Now are you going to explain that little clutch of untruths about my several threads (that don't exist) and my 'agenda' (that doesn't exist - search me I get pissed off about a different type of rudeness or bullying every time) and my own issue (god knows)

[HercShipwright]

It most certainly is a telling misconception - the person who holds it thinks that only people who work at it are slim. Exercisers. Very similar to the other poster who stated that slim people can eat what they want and not get fat.

Petula - when someone tells me that men like real women, not sticks, I don't actually take from that the idea that they are envious about my size.

[Tweasels]

Of course not all slim women are toned. Where have I said that? Not all fat women are curvy either. It was just an example.

[Fideliney]

How can it be 'telling' when noone has voiced it, hinted at it or otherwise implied it?! Are you having a conversation with yourself or is my screen not loading properly?

[PetulaGordino]

i did say "usually" herc, so accept that's not always the case

though arguably someone who makes that sort of imbecilic comment could be coming from a position of envy - they are putting you down because they are unhappy with their own appearance

[HercShipwright]

Fid - there's thins thread and the nutty thread and I thought I recognised you from the 'people who are slim' thread - which you seem to reference in your OP for this thread and which contains several posts extremely similar to the things you are trotting out here. But they are by different posters - with similar posting styles. So you're only pursuing this agenda on 2 threads.

Incidentally you clearly aren't reading all the posts in this thread because the all slim women eat what they want without getting fat, and the slim women are toned comments were made right here, this morning, by (respectively) Hedgehogs and Tweasels.

[Fideliney]

I'm not 'pursuing an agenda' Herc - this thread was largely inspired by the mad thread (which I didn't start but which contained a lot of goady squawking) which I was horrified to read. Other than that, it isn't a subject I post on as it doesn't really have relevance to me these days, but I do browse and notice what others have noticed.

If I have missed anything I apologise, but if I wasn't busily having to refute the untruths you are posting about threads I haven't posted on, 'issues' I don't have etc, I might be following it all better,

[Hedgehogsrule]

I DID NOT say that all thin people can eat whatever they like without getting fat. I said that it must be nice to be able to eat what you like without worrying about putting on weight. I was referring to the comment made by BloominNora, who said:

I eat perfectly healthily in more than adequate amounts with a lot of high protein foods (chicken, dairy etc). I also eat my fair share of junk on top of that.
I've always been thin - I have a very very quick metabolism. Within 3 days of giving birth to each of my two children I was back in size 10's, within 2 weeks I was back in size 8's with aboslutely no effort on my part whatsoever.

I think that must be nice. So shoot me for saying so.

[HercShipwright]

You have a twin on the people who are slim thread. I have already apologised for thinking that poster was you - it was the almost identical comments that confused me. But you continue to attack me in this and the bonkers thread, for no reason other than that I disagree with you and think this thread is nasty which it is. The only person squawking is you, and I don't feel the need to be subjected to it any more.

[Fideliney]

No Herc I have been vigorously pointing out that you have been lying about me because you have been lying about me. Repeatedly.