Isn't about Fattism was added to the list of prohibited 'isms'?

[Fideliney]

I've read one too many rather squawky assertions recently on MN that 'skinny bashing' has the same socio-cultural connotations and (ahem) heft as fattism. It doesn't.

Isn't fattism the only socially widespread discrimination/ hatred NOT specifically banned on MN now? Have I got that right?

I've been mulling this overnight and things are routinely posted about overweight people on MN which, if the words 'asian' or 'gay' were substituted for 'fat' or 'obese', nobody would even attempt to defend.

I know haterz gotta hate or whatever the expression is but could we just leave them something insipid and harmless like nylon hating or persecution of cockroaches to get on with and make a clean sweep of the 'isms'?

[HercShipwright]

Of course being overweight has become normalized. The most obvious evidence of this is the way clothes have been 'resized'. I'm not thinner than I was when I was 15. Apart from general aging effects, I've had 3 kids. Yet apparently I've gone down 2-3 dress sizes, have I Next. Have I fuck. You've changed the sizing. This makes it more difficult for what used to be ordinarily sized people to buy clothes on the high street now. Because being big is now the norm.

[BloominNora]

Bloomin there is a difference between bullies picking you for a genuine issue that you have and an imaginary issue you don't have, no?

How is being thin imaginary exactly?

[Whocares156]

Really good post Herc

Because being big is now the norm

So true, so true

[Fideliney]

I don't think the shame attached by society to overweight has lessened Herc

Body fascism of all stripes is still thrown around a lot, as Cunk said, which must show it is not a non issue.

[Fideliney]

How is being thin imaginary exactly?

Eh?

If you have a normal BMI you don't have a weight 'issue'/problem do you. If you have a BMI under 18 (?) or over 25 (?) then arguably you do have an issue/problem.

[HercShipwright]

Have you been in a high street clothes shop recently? Vanity sizing has gone mad.

[KarlWrenbury]

i dislike the twee " curvy " shit you get. normally directed towards Vivienne of Holloway dresses
I have no beef with fat people but there should be no apology for seeing it as less than desirable

[PetulaGordino]

tbh i'm talking less about things like clothes sizes (which vary wildly from shop to shop anyway) than about how overweight people actually feel in public spaces, how some women on here have said that they can't enjoy playing with their children in public, or do sports in public, or anything active and participatory really, without fearing ridicule

[Fideliney]

Yes i know.

But I don't think overweight has been normalized so much as weight has been polarized. I think you see fewer and fewer women who look as though they are size 10/12 (old money) and more and more 6/8s and 14+

[BloominNora]

And no, it's not irrelevant - you think 'fat bashing' is worse than 'skinny bashing' - you say so in your OP.

So what you are saying is being horrible to someone for being fat, despite that fact that being fat is not usually a natural state of affairs and can be fixed or treated is worse than being horrible to someone for being thin, even though it is much more likely to be a genetic factor that someone has absolutely no control over.

That's very similar (but not quite the same) to saying that being horrible to someone who has acne or tattoos is worse than being horrible to someone for having a strawberry birth mark

[Fideliney]

To my ears Karl 'fat' sounds as rude as 'curvy' sounds twee.

[KarlWrenbury]

A mate of mine calls herself fat.

It is no issue to her

[shakethetree]

I don't really have much respect for people who are fat simply because they're pigs, & I've seen plenty of programmes on the subject ( fat families, a year to save my life etc ) to know that a lot of people are fat purely because they love their pies - fair enough, but I haven't got any sympathy for them.

[Fideliney]

you think 'fat bashing' is worse than 'skinny bashing'

Not 'worse' but more shaming yes assuming we take 'skinny bashing' to be aimed at people of normal weight (perhaps I didn't make that clear).

[PetulaGordino]

aah shakethetree, because those programmes are not deliberately selecting people with certain behaviours and editing the footage to enhance them at all, are they?

[Fideliney]

A mate of mine calls herself fat. It is no issue to her

To me, it's a word like ginger or queer, though, if people want to use it about themselves, fine, but I certainly wouldn't use it about someone else.

shake you are just being very rude.

[shakethetree]

I don't know - all I know is one woman I saw on 'a year to save my life' ate more in 3 hours than I eat in 3 days.

[BloominNora]

If you have a normal BMI you don't have a weight 'issue'/problem do you. If you have a BMI under 18 (?) or over 25 (?) then arguably you do have an issue/problem.

I have a BMI of 17.5 - I am on the cusp of being underweight.

I eat perfectly healthily in more than adequate amounts with a lot of high protein foods (chicken, dairy etc). I also eat my fair share of junk on top of that.

I've always been thin - I have a very very quick metabolism. Within 3 days of giving birth to each of my two children I was back in size 10's, within 2 weeks I was back in size 8's with aboslutely no effort on my part whatsoever. People think this is great - they tell me how lucky I am (often with a side order of snideness). In reality, clothes don't fit properly, I often lack energy and I don't particularly like the way I look.

However, apart from what would be unhealthy in the long term high protein diets or weight training, there is nothing I can do about it.

And anyway, I don't think being a twat to someone is worse when the issue is real than if it's 'imaginary' - it's probably worse when it's 'imaginary' because there is nothing the person can do about it

[BloominNora]

Not 'worse' but more shaming yes assuming we take 'skinny bashing' to be aimed at people of normal weight (perhaps I didn't make that clear).

Why would you assume that. Why on earth is it worse to shame someone for a real problem than to make someones life a misery for a perceived problem or one they can do nothing about for fucks sake.#

[Inthedarkaboutfashion]

Not 'worse' but more shaming yes assuming we take 'skinny bashing' to be aimed at people of normal weight (perhaps I didn't make that clear).

Skinny bashing is just as bad regardless whether the person is a normal weight or underweight because you are essentially ridiculing somebody for their size. Whilst you might thinks it is okay to do that because the person is a normal weight the person on the receiving end might not like it and might question whether they look too thin.
You can't complain about people making fat comments if you yourself are prepared to make skinny comments.

[Fideliney]

And anyway, I don't think being a twat to someone is worse when the issue is real than if it's 'imaginary' - it's probably worse when it's 'imaginary' because there is nothing the person can do about it

So you think you have less control over your weight than a heavier person might have?

[Hedgehogsrule]

I've been really shocked at the number of nasty anti- fat people comments I've seen on Mumsnet. A lot of it gratuitous. If you want to talk about the health issues, that's fine, but there is loads of straightforward abuse / nasty jokes. There seems to be a real hatred of people who are overweight, and many people obviously think that it's fine to abuse them at every opportunity. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves, like "white trash" abusing black people.

[Fideliney]

Skinny bashing is just as bad regardless whether the person is a normal weight or underweight because you are essentially ridiculing somebody for their size. Whilst you might thinks it is okay to do that because the person is a normal weight the person on the receiving end might not like it and might question whether they look too thin.
You can't complain about people making fat comments if you yourself are prepared to make skinny comments.

You okay there inthe? You are making an awful lot of assumptions. I have never once in my life made a 'skinny comment' although I have had plety directed at me.

I haven't said it's okay. I have said very clearly that all comments based on size/body are rude and are not ok.

What I am worried about is that people who need to lose weight for the good of their health are being basically fat-shamed and that this is a) really rude b) really bad for self-esteem and motivation and c) really off when we don't do it to other groups.

[Fideliney]

Exactly Hedge exactly. It's sort of startling because it is so out of step with the ethos.

[BloominNora]

So you think you have less control over your weight than a heavier person might have?

Erm yes - if there is nothing wrong with someones weight, but they are being ridiculed anyway then there is nothing to have control over and as I have already said - quite often, and certainly more often than is the case with overweight people, those who are underweight or on the lower end of the normal scale are there due to genetic reasons and therefore have no control over it short of undertaking high protein diets or weight gaining via rigourous weight training regimes which come with severe health risks in and of themselves if used long term.