Since WBY was such a huge success, how about turning our collective attention to DV?

[lissieloo]

Quash a few myths, challenge a few preconceptions?

WBY was, and is, awesome. I really think we could do the same for domestic violence. There seem to be an awful lot of posters in, or who have survived an abusive relationship. Reality's "Now Look Here" is brilliant, and we could incorporate that. I'm sure that the bloggers would get behind it too.

Whaddya think?

wow weird that just posted a post from yesterday when the site went down. sorry for the repeat.

just to add another thing that occurred to me that comes up often on the EA support thread. Abusers often seem unique and unusual. they make a big deal of how unlike everyone else they are and how normal rules cannot be applied to them- because they have been traumatised, or they have stresses no on else has, or they are unusually clever, attractive, creative or whatever else they decide to declare bullshit they make up.

yet when survivors share stories, it is often staggering just how similar these abusers men are. they often do and say exactly the same things as if they had read from a script.

not sure where this would fit into things, it is just an observation.

and yy to giving survivors the tools and opportunities to leave without demanding that they do so.

I think it is worth maybe stating examples of behaviour and saying 'this is abuse' just so that people know they do not have to tolerate it. there is a name for it. it is wrong. and that is why they feel so awful.

everyone knows violence is abuse so many people assume if it is not violence it is not abuse.

I knew I was unhappy for ages but I could not work out why. I know that might sound very foolish but what I mean is I could see there was something wrong with the dynamic in my rs and I tried and tried and twisted and turned trying to make it better...because you do, because it takes two to make an rs work, because you are always told there must be fault on both sides. because the real pressure from society is to make your rs work especially if it involves kids.

sometimes it would get better, just like that. So I could not work out what was going wrong nor what would suddenly make it go right again.
it was so confusing.

the thing that i finally put my finger on and said no to was repeatedly being labelled with offensive language. I made several requests for it to stop, saying it is one things to disagree but that does not give you the right to call me a 'fucking idiot' or a moron, or stupid, useless or any of the many other things I was regularly called. it didn't stop so I ended it.

and it was only after I left and started talking to other survivors that I realised how much of the other things that had gone on were abuse.

so it may be that one of the things a campaign would need to say is this is abuse. because initially I just thought it was a heated argument.
and because it is abuse you can give your self permission to leave. because it probably won't get better.

death by a thousand cuts

With a comment that "these are some examples, but it's not limited to this..." I wouldn't want someone to look at it and think because it's not on the list, it's not abuse.

good point...surprised anyone made it all the way through that epic post alice

I've often thought about posters in gp's /hospit/antenatal and so on, stating those things....

Walking on eggshells anyone?
Are your opinions listened to?
Are you shut down?
Talked over?
Blamed for his bad behaviour?
shouted over/hit
physically blocked, or pushed
have plates thrown around you (plates comes up a lot everywhere I think!
... anyway.. this kind of thing

As it will make people think, whats that all about, and/or 'yes' I feel like that, or that happens, - is it wrong then? I just thought I was annoying him all the time!!!

Mink the cycle of abuse gives an easy to understand, visual description on what abuse 'looks' like and the Power and Control wheel is used all over the world.

I think this is a great way to implement your suggestion.

The link below will take you to the SODA website and is a fantastic site. There is a Power and Control wheel on the page I've linked.

SODA Survivors Of Domestic Abuse Website

This link explains the processes within the cycle of abuse

This is 'The Dominator'

The Dominator is the profile of the perpetrator, used in The Freedom Programme.

The description manages to encompass the traits of all kinds of abusers.

another myth to explode...

I think a commonly/widely held belief exists that survivors fall into a socio-economic category? or race/religion too, as an extension of that ..

I have witnessed time and again the surprise registered by those who discoverd that its actually no surprise to know

perpetrators are:

head teachers in special needs schools for kids
Psychologists managing children's services
The local community priest
Their friendly charming doctor
The social worker
the unemployed guy
the multimillionaire entreprenuer
the school teacher
the local community police officer
the stay at home father [bad father]

I do know of instances of all of these, and the depravity and levels of control involved is shocking.

do tattoos and piercings mean anything

An organisation set up to support survivors, which many rely on for their lives:

This...

fi I used to sit in the toilet at the antenatal clinic and stare at those posters but I never thought it was me. well I must have done a bit because I stared for so long (maybe because I recognised the state of the woman in the pictures) but it was the old because he never hit me...

so yes they could do with a bit of a rethink to make it more obvious is does not have be to be a black eye to be abuse.
in fact a phrase like that might be a good starting point:

it does not have to be a black eye to be abuse
or
he doesn't have to hit you to hurt you

also I went to the PND clinic- I did not have PND I had living with a total FW depression. the babies were fine it was him. and although is did talk to a counsellor and she did ask why i never left him she never said- you do know that is abuse. I wish she had. and I bet a lot of other survivors end up getting treated for PND. so there needs to be posters there and more awareness there too. even if she had just planted the idea in my head. (urgh even just thinking about the whole antenatal/post natal experience has made me feel really sick )

Mink, thank you for your posts and sorry to hear this is distressing you.

Looking at those links I think that there are lots of groups who know more than the average mner about the difficulties faced by survivors.

I wonder if the problem is that many of these groups don't have enough money to get the message out there. That is where mn could be very powerful.

I would be very wary of a campaign that sought to educate without having linked in with some of the groups that know more. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

kickass it is not a problem. would rather talk about it and do something about and maybe have one woman turn round and say enough to their unhappy rs

yy though vital to link to the relevant organisations. i never used WA but from having heard so much about them through MN I think they are brilliant.

and that link from fi is excellent. I think the hurdle is getting women to realise they can use WA and it is not just people who have a much harder time than they are. because that happens so often women say WA is there fir people who really need it I don't want to waste their time.

yes definitely about the using WA, or backing off especially!

each and every woman that makes that first tentative step into the survivor community approaches terrified and apologetic and sure that her situation must be compared, and negatively at that, to others.

WA is not called, the woman unsure... at the moment it does seem impossible to get through, even during the quiet hours [mmm notso] and no calls backs, well I'm sure there must be of course, loads, but higher reports of no call back cases.

The thing that prevents in the unreality of it all!

I was told by relate the various definitions, and was stunned and couldn't take it in. Society and individuals are soooo far behind the reality it can't be seen staring it in the face

I really like the 'he doesn't have to hit you to hurt you' idea.
It is pretty much accepted that hitting a woman is utterly unacceptable nowadys, so I think all except the crassest of abusers use that as a last resort form of control, whereas when it was still thought as just 'unfortunate' or 'men can't help themselves' then it was likely to emerge sooner.

How true that is I'm not sure, but i do think that up until the point of physical violence, women think 'this isn't really happening'. So many of the behaviours are subtle, and can be things that 'normal' people would do, that it's hard to define.

I think that if you're constantly second guessing whether you're doing this right, what will he say, and worried about getting it wrong, then you need some support.

How about "you don't have to be hit, to be hurt"?

Less likely to attract the trolls.

Sorry for brevity of my post, on way to hospital.

whats up lissie

Nothing much, just bone density scan. See what state my skeleton is in

that might work lissie. i was aware the he might be controversial. in Scotland you can use they to mean one person of any gender but in England i think it implies more than one person?

so making it more passive.
same as the' it doesn't have to be a black-eye to be abuse' is not gendered.

(and yes i know what we are rely talking about is mostly male violence but you are right as soon as you say he people will jump on it...and the point will be lost)

or 'there don't have to be bruises for it to be abusive'

that link above is horrific. i presume from the language that is America though. according to Lundy that is more the way things go with the courts there. here fathers do not have rights. children do.

contact is a very tricky juggling act and a constant source of stress to survivors.

The link has made me feel very, very sad.
The children involved in these cases now I am pretty sure will be apearing on Panarama type programmes in the future when the scandal is revealed - once the children reach 16 I think it is, they can talk to the press about thier expereinces.

It is happening in America now - I will try and find a link - as in America they have been using the right of the child to have relationship with both parents' as the rights of more cases to be brought to contact for contact to earn lawyers money' - for longer. Whilst it is a very large source of stress for survivors we are creating future problems in society as these children with grown up with emotional problems.
As in the case of the link - she has no access to legal aid and no money to have legal representaion - I really don't think you should have to pay thousands to proect yourself - I thought i was you human right to have that protection - it seems not.
Had I not expereinced this first hand I would have found it very difficult to believe. Friends and family have been so shocked and horrified what has been happening to my DS and I and it is not as bad as some other reported cases by any means. The secret family courts need to be exposed and this can be done without the identity of children being revealed. I am hoping to get a meeting with a cabinet minster shortly. They are considering some points I have made at the moment.

It seems that even when you escape the abuse and do everything you can to protect yourself and your DC, the court has the right to pull you straight back in, this also falls within the `he doesn't have to hit you' slogan - financial abuse can still be continued in this way too.... many survivors have done so much to ensure the financial stability for thier DC with no support from the abuser and then the abuser can take that away to via the legal system - it is so wrong. The abuser's aim is to destory you no matter how he does it - if he doesn't and you do look stable - the problem must be them - and they can't have that.