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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
IjustLOVEmen · 19/03/2012 19:48

"QueenOfAllBiscuitsandMuffins Mon 19-Mar-12 18:53:30

Is fuckwit a gender specific insult?"

Valid question, Queen.

ToothbrushThief · 19/03/2012 19:52

I'm a mother who wishes the father of my children would a) see them and b) pay something towards their upkeep - you might think this would make me unsympathetic to men but I regard everyone as individuals.

I was a supporter of F4J because of a good friend who went through hell when his ex tried to stop his contact.

I am horrified at this advert and their campaign. They must surely have lost public sympathy. They will never regain any support from me and they will never recover from such stupid campaigning.

I would lose respect for anyone involved in their campaign of intimidation as well (including any advertisers bowing to their bullying)

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 19:56

Aitch
I would have to look more closely at the family court thing, I think it is badly in need of reform from the little I have read. Am writing a blog post about male rape now.

Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 19:57

Still at least we have the MN 'We Believe You' campaign for people who are sincere about caring about real rape.

Which is utterly brilliant and a real resource for women. Thanks MN!

DoodleAlley · 19/03/2012 20:07

M&S do lovely rhubarb and cinammon yogurts and they're low fat but don't taste it.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 20:07

somebody called nick posting for f4j on their fb page has just posted this.

^''Most people very rarely see gender feminism naked. Like Matt himself, it is normally well covered, and for that we are very grateful. It seeps its poison stealthily, dropping a few false facts about rape here, a few fabricated statistcs about male violence there, slowly but steadily changing the nature of male/female relationships and the perception of domestic violence, or the ?threat? men pose to their children....

Many of these feminists, no doubt, would much rather stay hidden, working their ?black alchemy? (Matt?s phrase) at the heart of organisations like Mumsnet and Gingerbread, corrupting the other members with their drip, drip, drip of poison.''^

I nominate this post for a tin-foil hat award.

ToothbrushThief · 19/03/2012 20:08

Most of this hysteria has passed me by fortunately. I would say however that I saw one of the original threads ? in site stuff when at least a couple of regular posters were vicious to MNHQ individuals... MN posters not F4J. At the time I drafted a mail to MNHQ offering support. I didn't send it because I thought it looked sycophantic and tbh 'who am I' and 'my opinions don't count'.
I wish I'd sent it now.

The site is moderated with a light touch allowing a range of views which is brave and allows free speech. A consequence of that is that you do get lots of swearing, anger, deliberate offensiveness and crude remarks. Fine... except for the fact that it does give ammunition to anyone with an axe to grind against women using MN. I'd hope to not add to that.

Sunnywithachanceofshowers · 19/03/2012 20:08

Can you buy tin foil at M&S, SLTS?

What's gender feminism? Did I miss out at indoctrination classes?

QIelf · 19/03/2012 20:09

It's so sad that F4J have staged this publicity stunt now, when MNHQ could be concentrating on the We Believe You campaign.

I'm sure this is just a coincidence, however.

I thought F4J were about getting equal rights for fathers in court. Not taking a bunch of comments from individuals on a public forum out of context, and using them to publicise.....what? Are they trying to shut down a site for parents? What's their aim? Why don't they just comment on their own site?

This is all so bizarre, I don't get it at all. What's saddest of all is that F4J could do so much good, fighting for children's rights to see their fathers and here they are having a go at an internet site. How does that help any of us?

NorfolkNChance · 19/03/2012 20:11

M&S do the best dark chocolate covered ginger biscuits as well.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 20:13

QI
I am not sure it is coincidence.

There are a few comments about falsified abuse claims to stop fathers getting access. I am not saying this never happens, sure it does, just as there are women who stop access cause they are vindictive. But it has nothing to do with the #webelieveyou campaign, which was aimed at highlighting the many many women who don't report rape.

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 20:14

Oh don't worry QIelf, There are actual organisations out there to help fight for childrens rights. It's just their goal is for the kids to be happy and the parents to be fair, Not publicity and money like F4J.

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 20:15

M&S do sell tin foil.

HTH.

Grin.

They also sell raspberries...

QIelf · 19/03/2012 20:17

omg

rhubarb and cinnamon yoghurts?!

I would kill for a rhubarb and cinnamon yoghurt. Not a man, you understand, that would be misandry. But I'd kill a kitten or a unicorn.

Tiago · 19/03/2012 20:18

Did the aibu about reaping/sowing get deleted?

Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 20:19

Is anyone else PMSL at the juxtaposition of Gingerbread and corruption?

Sorry, I know one shouldn't mock but it is just awful to the point of actually being funny.

Gingerbread were brilliant to my mum. Respect. Respect to my dad too as he is a lovely man.

Tiago · 19/03/2012 20:19

I prefer plain rhubarb tbh

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 20:20

''Can you buy tin foil at M&S, SLTS?

What's gender feminism? Did I miss out at indoctrination classes?''

I don't know if you can buy tin foil at M&S. I've not found them to be that great at catering stuff, so I don't go there when I'm looking for stuff like that.

There is no such thing as gender feminism. It was a term created by a so called 'equity feminist' who believed that there are natural role distinctions between men and women, that they have innate gender roles, and that feminists should do nothing to try and change that. So she created 'equity and gender' titles for feminism to present her ideas as fair and reasonable, and all other feminists as biased and anti-men.

suzy82 · 19/03/2012 20:21

M&S yum, yums - FOUR, yes - FOUR, I kid you not, for just £1. They are totally awesome.

SophieNeveu · 19/03/2012 20:22

tia, looks like it.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 20:24

Just scrolled down and spotted snapespeare's haiku. :o Brilliant.

Sunnywithachanceofshowers · 19/03/2012 20:26

Thanks SLTS for the explanation about gender feminism.

'This isn't just any tin foil hat, this is an M&S tin foil hat'

NorfolkNChance · 19/03/2012 20:27

Apparently the salmon container is the best for a tin foil hat.

DoodleAlley · 19/03/2012 20:33

Oh give the rhubarb yogurt a go tiago. It's so creamy and yummy. As a general non yogurt fan it was a revelation!

notocrap3 · 19/03/2012 20:33

Grin I completely understand the motives for the Bizarre Campaign of 2012.

Mr Matt Glynn O Connor tried to find fame and fortune with the creation of a Covent Garden based Icecreamist parlour with the good help of Fredericks Dairies.

However during the past few years Company House records have shown that even with the help of Mumsnetter's breast milk and Lady Gaga's Non Endorsement, it just hasnt been enough to generate funding and publicity.

It also didnt help that Mumsnetters prefer M&S/Waitrose/Ben and Jerry's ice cream products as opposed to Frederick Dairies Ice creams

All of these struggles have generated a real hatred towards the Mumsnetters and a desire to bring them down along with the failure of Second Nature Creations and non start of Agitator Limited. Matthew was sure to feel frustrated

But we will not be beaten fellow Mumsnetters so continue to choose M&S ice cream and boycott that crappy synthetic tasting stuff this National Ice Cream week

ThanksThanksThanksThanksThanksThanksThanksThanks