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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Fathers 4 Justice and their recent attacks on Mumsnet

999 replies

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2012 09:28

Some of you may have noticed that a group called Fathers 4 Justice has been saying some pretty unpleasant things about us over the last couple of weeks. In an 'advert' which appeared first on Facebook and then in yesterday's edition of the I, the group claims Mumsnet 'promotes gender hatred', and labels 'men and boys as rapists, paedophiles and wife beaters'. It calls on advertisers to suspend advertising on Mumsnet.

Most people, I'm quite sure, will see the adverts and the 'campaign' behind them for precisely what they are: a naked attempt to court publicity by a group of people who for whatever reason appear to have tired of climbing cranes in superhero outfits. (And, just coincidentally, in the run up to Mothers' Day). In fact it feels a bit like having a particularly irritating toddler repeatedly prodding you with a stick to get some attention.

By and large it seemed most sensible to ignore them, not least because we've had our hands quite full with stuff that actually matters, like Mumsnet's 'We believe you' campaign to dispel rape myths.

But since Fathers 4 Justice appear to have attracted some grown ups' attention, we thought we should tell you a bit about the background to this attack, the truth behind their allegations, and how they are trying to bully us and other organisations. Here are 10 things you should know.

  1. On March 3rd a Mumsnet user started a conversation about a poster campaign being touted on Mumsnet's Facebook wall by Fathers 4 Justice, and the fact that Fathers 4 Justice was bombarding a number of sites with this troubling image.
  1. A conversation then ensued on Mumsnet about Fathers 4 Justice and their tactics which some members of Fathers 4 Justice joined. Some Mumsnetters said some pretty harsh things.
  1. We deleted a number of posts that broke our forum guidelines regarding personal attacks. In total we deleted 70 posts from the thread which went on over the next few days and reached 1000 posts in total. 60 were posts were made by regular Mumsnet members, ten or so by new joiners from Fathers 4 Justice. Our community managers reminded users to follow forum guidelines on nine separate occasions and at least one prolific Mumsnetter left the site in protest at our deletion policy.
  1. On March 7th and March 8th MNHQ received a series of emails from the Campaign Director of Fathers 4 Justice containing threats of legal action and a threat to contact our advertisers. At the same time comments on the Fathers 4 Justice Facebook page describing Mumsnetters as 'barking mad harridans', 'weird sex obsessed paranoid perverts' and 'child abusing contact blockers' were left unmoderated. As were comments that described me variously as a 'dried up old hag', 'an evil woman' and having an 'IQ that would return a negative score'.
  1. On March 11th Fathers 4 Justice posted another attack ad this time accusing M&S of 'sponsoring hateful, bigoted and prejudiced comments about men and boys on Mumsnet' and demanding that M&S withdraw all advertising on Mumsnet or face a boycott. It accused the company of 'serving up gender hatred for Mother's Day'.
  1. Other organisations have experienced similar bullying tactics. In recent weeks Fathers 4 Justice have targeted the lone parents' support charity, Gingerbread, jamming up its telephone helplines. Senior NGO staff have told us they felt too intimidated to speak out against them.
  1. The suggestion that Mumsnet encourages gender hatred would be funny if it were not so offensive - and plain silly. The central aim of Mumsnet is to make parents' (mothers' and fathers') lives easier. There are many and varied opinions on the site and no one Mumsnet party line prevails, save for the view that we respect diverse opinion. We do not pre-moderate or vet comments made to our discussion boards of which there are around 30 000 every day. Men are and always have been extremely welcome on Mumsnet - we have a Dadsnet forum for Dads to talk directly with other men should they wish. We estimate that around 5-10% of our 2 million odd monthly users are men.

Of course you can always find plenty of Mumsnetters whinging about their male partners' shortcomings - more than there are whinging about their female partners' shortcomings - but generalisations are swiftly pounced on and we do not tolerate gender hatred, or any other kind of hatred for that matter (save maybe hatred of Fruitshoots). We encourage people to be civil and supportive and, in the main, most people are.

  1. Fathers 4 Justice campaigns for fathers to have access to their children following separation or divorce. Its founder, Matt O'Connor, says parents have 'fewer rights than a terrorist'. The organisation was temporarily disbanded in 2006 after it emerged that some of its members had plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son Leo. Fathers 4 Justice boasts that it is 'the most controversial and high profile pressure group of modern times' but it has struggled to win public attention since abandoning its eye-catching tactic of scaling tall structures in superhero costumes. In recent weeks it has targeted Cafcass, the body responsible for protecting the rights of children in court proceedings, Gingerbread, the charity for single parents, (which it claimed supported 'the abuse of children') and Mumsnet. It has also, somewhat mysteriously, branded London 2012 'the fatherless games'.
  1. We believe that the issue of father's access to children is important and needs to be discussed. We understand that many Fathers 4 Justice campaigners are driven by intense personal anger over what they feel is injustice they have suffered in their own cases. But the recent actions the group have taken against Mumsnet and others constitute plain and simple bullying and intimidation and only harm its cause.
  1. Reading this, you may well already be spitting tacks by now. Please do remember that's precisely what Fathers 4 Justice want. If you post on the subject please keep it civil. We won't be bullied, but we don't want to be dragged into the mire either.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 19:18

And again, the comment I mad on F4J has been deleted. Not so much for free speech, are they?

those who have been quoted
Can you find the posts that have been partially quoted and can we make a full list of them, with the post that you were commenting on if you were replying to another poster?

PosiePumblechook · 19/03/2012 19:19

Mme Lindor, I have posted on your wall and Beach I have Pmed you.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 19:19

Fathers 4 Justice - The Official Campaign Organisation wrote: "Rape is a 'sexual assault'. The language used by Mumsnet is a verbal sexual assault. End of."

FrothyDragon · 19/03/2012 19:22

Easily done... give me two minutes..

OptimisticPessimist · 19/03/2012 19:23

A verbal sexual assault?! There are no words.

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 19:24

Verbal sexual assault.. Emotional rape.

This is good, Unravel F4J. Keep talking and unravel...

Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 19:25

Indeed it would be a positively hyper-masculine deluded sort of thing to do - were anybody to attempt it.

I don't think anybody would though, because it would make them appear to be the sort of person who might use aggressive bullying domineering tactics, the like of which show a total lack of empathy for rape victims (male or female).

So I guess this is probably all a misunderstanding. A typo or two perhaps?

NearlyMrsCustardsHardHat · 19/03/2012 19:25

Oh dear!

It sounds like someone at F4J wants their moment in the sun. Don't give them the satisfaction of biting, let them show themselves for the muppets they are.

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 19/03/2012 19:25

screen grab it, grab it quick MmeLindor before she realises what a dumb thing that was to say and deletes it!

FrothyDragon · 19/03/2012 19:26

I was replying to LineRunner (posted at 00:29), on this thread, at 00:40, and said...

"Linerunner, I'm so sorry to hear that.

It's amazing how little of a fuck some fathers give, then they sit down the pub, moaning to all that will listen about how evil their ex-partners are for taking their kids out of their life.

It's exactly what my ex did with his ex wife. And, from what friends have said, he's done the same with me. Neither of his sons would know him from Adam"

The full quote, in all it's glory.

OptimisticPessimist · 19/03/2012 19:27

Apparently we are "ridiculing male rape victims" on this thread. I think certain people are accessing a completely different Mumsnet to the one I am because I see no ridicule?

Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 19:29

I mean nobody would be intentionally that crass and offensive towards rape victims (male and female) as to make a mockery of their experiences in such a low-down and disgusting way.

Surely?

AbigailAdams · 19/03/2012 19:30

No F4J you are ridiculing rape victims. HTH.

Ratbagcatbag · 19/03/2012 19:31

I am getting really pee'd off now, as a victim of sexual assault there is nothing at all that can be compared to it, and disagreeing with comments about F4J and what they are trying to do does not make something "verbal sexual assault"

I agree with the comment about keep talking and unravel yourselves.

Where did you see the official campaign line? I had a nosy on their website but couldn't see anything at all about mumsnet.

PurpleRomanesco · 19/03/2012 19:31

I wouldn't be so sure Beach. TBH this Nadine woman seems to be slightly clueless and TBH loving the attention.

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 19:33

Excellent work, Frothy.

This is interesting and shocking.

British Crime Survey estimates that up to 15% of the adult population of the UK have been sexually abused in childhood. This includes 11% of young men.
1.5 per cent of men had suffered a serious sexual assault at some point in their lives with 0.9 per cent reporting rape. The equivalent figures since 16 were 0.5 per cent and 0.4 per cent.

I didn't know that male rape was so common. Perhaps we should do some kind of #webelieveyou spin off and talk about this?

It makes me so mad that F4J use the shock value of these words to gain publicity for their cause.

It also makes me mad for the fathers who are not allowed access and will find it more difficult to get support from the general public, if they are seen as weird batman-costume wearing, naked M&S shopper, ranting idiots.

NinthWave · 19/03/2012 19:35

fabwoman Gypsy tarts are impossibly sweet, like a sort of caramel cream in a pastry case. I've never seen them outside of Kent, you lucky person!

Thanks for the offer but I'm not sure they'd survive the post Grin

MmeLindor. · 19/03/2012 19:38

Posie
I haven't had a PM. On here on on FB?

Onesunnymorningin2012 · 19/03/2012 19:38

MmeLindor I think that's a terrific idea.

fabwoman · 19/03/2012 19:40

LOL. I am in Kent!!

My muffins to go survived the post....

They sound delicious. Damn it Grin.

FrothyDragon · 19/03/2012 19:43

MmeLindor, agree with everything you said at 19:33. Everything.

Beachcomber · 19/03/2012 19:45

Surely a person wouldn't be so attention craving as to mock rape victims just for the sake of it? Surely not - I mean that would be so offensive and reprehensible and shameful.

I'm sure there has been a mistake. I refuse to believe that there are people that abhorrent. I think we need some proof - something published in the press maybe.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo · 19/03/2012 19:46

there should definitely be space in the campaign to talk about male on male rape, i agree.

i'm still, though, of the opinion that ignoring these diddies is the way to go. they seem... unhinged. but turn their weirdnesses into something positive? yes, let's do it.

i don't know anything about family courts, though, other than what i've read on here, which is often anguished and formerly abused women devastated at bad, bad exes being allowed to move on to manipulate their kids. Unlike F4J, though, i have presumed that (because we are a support forum) this is the exception rather than the norm when it comes to access issues.

DuelingFanjo · 19/03/2012 19:46

Give them enough rope...

woollyideas · 19/03/2012 19:47

I do hope they've run that advert past the Advertising Standards Authority. I see a deluge of complaints if it's actually published. Isn't there a law about cherry-picking words out of context and then using them to falsely represent something?

eg. the theatre critic writes: "The wooden acting and total lack of a plot was breathtaking..." which is cut down to the single (unrepresentative) word, "BREATHTAKING!" when being quoted out of context in an advert.