Reply to Justine

[TheOriginalFAB]

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

TIY, it seems that it is not quite working properly.

There are a number of people saying it is not always a two step process.

There are a number of people who have found that it has posted to walls, despite not clicking the "post to Facebook" button.

And there are a fair few people with shared computers, and/or more than one Facebook account, so if there is even a possibility that a thread can post to Facebook by accident it could be dangerous for some people.

And what really gets me is that mumsnet towers haven't even commented on any of these concerns, apart from effectively to say "tough shit ha ha joke" .

At best, this is showing really poor customer service. At worst its showing that they don't give a shit about their users, which is something they have denied for years .

but even if it did post, accidentally, to someone's fb how would that be dangerous?

it would be a link. that is all.
a link to a thread. nothing to link a specific poster to any FB account.
a link to a thread that is available online for anyone to read anyway.

and people with shared computers, who are posting things on here that they don't wish others to see should
a) use off the beaten track
b) take extra care to log out of stuff!

MN cannot take responsibility for its users logging in/out of facebook or mumsnet itself

OK. So, I don't do Facebook, so is this something I need to give any brain space to. If I clicked presumably nothing would happen. I can't see how anybody else clicking would affect me unless by making the potential pool of people who could spot me bigger?

p.s i agree that if some people are not getting the prompt then of course that needs looking into, and is not right- although I still don't think it's the end of the world if a thread link is placed on FB.

that and the fact that it posts automatically if you click elsewhere on the page

"but even if it did post, accidentally, to someone's fb how would that be dangerous?"

Because the OP could be the person whose wall it accidentally posted to, is just one scenario. Think about it.

But if the button could be hidden so you couldn't press it by accident, then it wouldn't be a problem surely?

There must be people here who don't want their threads to appear on their partner's walls (or in my case my children's). They aren't denying that sometimes it will post to the wall of the next person to log in to Facebook - so me making sure they are logged off makes no difference.

And if mumsnet would come on and actually answer questions they could put people's minds at rest (maybe, if it was working properly anyway). And allow us to ask for the button to be left off certain topics, but they are ignoring those requests as well.

It's all very well to use OTBT, but threads there go after a month, so long-running support threads can't go there.

Basically they are making it very difficult for anyone to risk posting any type of serious support, any stories or advice or personal experience to help people who are really struggling. Which used to be the best thing about Mumsnet. The fact that you could get advice from people who had actually experienced those struggles.

how could it post to someone elses wall though? unless there were two mners using the same pooter and one didnt log out?

its a non-argument over a non-event at a non-existent time that would take a lot of coincidences. and if you really are that paranoid worried then tweak your privacy settings on FB.

It can post to someone elses FB if

a) you are logged into MN
b) another family member is logged into FB on the same computer

The MN link doesn't know your FB from anyone else's, it just posts to whichever FB account is open at the time on that computer. As I understand it, anyway.

thisisyesterday. You are wrong.

You are posting how it SHOULD work. Not how it works for everybody.

You also seem to have a bee in the bonnet about this. Odd.

Also, if more than one person is using a computer, and have not logged out of their facebook properly, how is the next person to know this? The onus is then on the OTHER person, not the mumsnetting person to log out.

I'm not on Facebook [sigh]. I keep saying that.

So it posts it on the Facebook user of the computer I am on (which is a shared computer, shared between five people).

And before someone else suggests I buy myself a shiny new laptop for mumsnetting, I can't afford one .

BeerGrinchPotter's link appeared on her husband's Facebook wall, despite the fact that he was logged out at the time (it appeared the next time he logged in) when she tested it.

It is a massive glitch - I simply don't understand why someone from Mumsnet won't come on and tell us that it has been fixed, and the precautions they are taking to make sure it can't happen again.

The privacy thing does seem to be a bit of a red herring. I'm not sure this change adds anything to the existing standard internet hazards around confidentiality. The change is from there being only a "share on Facebook" button to there also being a "Like on Facebook" button? The only difference between the two that seems salient to me is that the former presents more opportunities for advertisers to get punters to interact with their brands online.

Dur. I mean "latter" not "former".

thats right, but why would it be posted onto the op's wall and not the mner of the house's?

and provided there is a working prompt, whats the harm? Ive linked stuff to dh's wall accidentally before, you delete it. there is the option to do so, if you cant figure out that.... the arguments against seem rooted firmly in the realm of the hypothetical imo.

and SM, I feel like I truly belong now

"thats right, but why would it be posted onto the op's wall and not the mner of the house's?"

The OP could BE the MNer of the house, is what I meant to say (sorry, probably not v clearly).

Who has pressed the Like button accidentally.

I am sad that MNHQ seem to have behaved like sheep and just 'followed the crowd' with regard to FB.

I don't 'do' FB, or twitter, I think they are terrible. Just MHO.

I would much rather pay X amount per year to be a member of mn and be able to post on the forums, if it meant that the FB links/likes whatever they are were removed.

Definitely a stalker's tool.

Working from the assumption that most people will have posted on threads they've liked , this will be a huge leg up for anyone trying to stalk from Facebook to MN - and after all they'll now know to look on MN for that person, which they wouldn't have before.

Take a list such as BobbinRobbin's at 11:37:52, but with maybe a dozen threads: nice mix of topics there. Analyse to see who's on almost every thread. You might get half a dozen names. Advanced Search (or Advanced Google Search) those, and you'd be there - if only by elimination (can't be X she's a nurse; can't be Y she's in her 40s; can't be Z she lives in the north-east).

That's leaving aside the fact that Facebook friends very often share RL contexts with the MNer - school, family, work, etc. So chances are, on any thread mentioning those the MNer will be immediately personally recognisable to a large number of RL FB friends. Once the nickname's blown, the FB friends can search MN for more.

Further, this defeats minor namechanges. If Bloggsy appears on one liked thread and Bl0gg5y on another, the stalker now has the new nn.

I think it would also assist sideways stalking through Facebook, tho I haven't thought it through. But a FB friend who has liked the same MN thread might give you a new path to explore - and that person might be a lot less discreet or security-conscious than the target MNer.

That's Facebook -> MN stalking.

For MN -> Facebook stalking it would probably be less of a help at the start, but a very strong clue you'd got the right person from a list of suspects generated by, say, genealogical searches.

And whilst some people have always posted links on their FB pages, the whole purpose of putting the button on MN is to hugely lower the threshold at which people bother to do this - and also to change the reason why they do it (as the method to do a "like"; recommending their friends read the thread might be a subsidiary - or completely unthought through - consequence).

Caveat Poster, and all that. But I do think the effect will be easier stalking.

So say I start a thread on, for example, how much I hate my MIL. I give lots of specific examples as to exactly why she riles me so much.

My thread grows throughout the day, then I accidentally hit Like.

My FB feed then sends the message 'Bobbin likes the thread 'My mother in law is driving me bonkers' on Mumsnet [link] to all my FB friends. Of whom my MIL is one. I don't really see how that is so far-fetched.

I would too MrsChristmas, but unfortunately the site can make more money from increased users and advertising than they ever could from asking us to pay.

I still don't understand why it can't be customisable to not have the like button - almost everything else is customisable, why not this? And why not answer the question?

I think it is sad that they allowed the other thread to close at 1,000 posts without answering so many questions, and they are completely ignoring any other threads on the subject.

They won't say if it is working properly, they won't say if it's customisable, they won't say if they'll take it off old posts, they won't discuss which topics are "sensitive", they won't discuss it at all.

Which is very unusual .

(I'm doing a lot of ing these days, it isn't an emoticon I usually use).

thisisanicecage, it wouldnt make it THAT much easier to stalk though. my RL name/my FB name and my mn name are all pretty much the same. you can turn your FB settings up high, you can ensure that only mners see mn related posts. you can delete items off your wall easily.... there are several very easy steps you can take to ensure that rl, mn and fb remain separate. the first one is to not click on the like button.

bobbins, but there should be a preview (Ive not used the like button yet) asking if you want to post to your wall. you can say no.

Thisisyesterday - you are wrong. We tested it this morning. I don't know if it's the same for all pc's - but on my AppleMac - clicking on 'like' - even by accident' and selecting 'close' still posts it to your FB wall (if you are logged in - or have the 'stay logged in' option flagged on FB). You either have to actively 'unlike' on MN or delete it via FB.

And whilst you can delete accidental posts off your own FB wall, I'm not sure whether doing that will guarantee that your 'update' will disappear off your FB Friends' feeds before they see it.

Added to which - how do you delete accidental posts off another user's FB wall (and can you be sure the feed hasn't gone out)?

it takes it off straight away, and you dont even get email notifications when someone replies anymore.

I understand why some are a little wary while there are still glitches, but those will be ironed out, and then its just another way to link mn to bf IF you wish to.

I don't buy all this 'accidentially pressing it' its at the top of the page (very close to the existing FB button) - if you use the mobile site its not on there at all and even if you are using the normal site on an ipad surely you scroll at the edges of the screen rather than right in the middle.

I could see the fucking hoo haa if the LIKE button was right next to the Post Message button but its fucking miles away from it.