Reply to Justine

[TheOriginalFAB]

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

It is right beside the thread title, which is exactly where my cursor sits on my laptop when I open a new thread.

Unless I move it to the side very quickly as the new thread opens.

Has it vanished?

but surely you would have to click it again for it to Like the thread?

On a lot of laptops and netbooks you only have to hover on a link to "click" on it.

Iam, really? my cursor stays where it was last on the screen. I agree that without the preview, its not a great idea, and mnhq need to clarify whats happening, but with the preview, you can say no. even if you do click on it by accident. and honestly, how many people have so far?

Mine stays in the middle of the page. But when I click on a thread title, and then scroll down the page as it opens to see the op, it seems to end up more or less level with the thread title. If the thread title is about half a line long (as a lot of them are), the cursor sort of sits on the like button - I've seen it happen and moved it quickly a couple of times in the last few days.

But I suppose I just want an answer.

I keep asking: Is the glitch going to be fixed, can it be made customisable (as in can we choose to hide it), is it going to be taken off old threads, can we ask for other topics to be excluded?

You would think they would at least attempt to answer those questions, wouldn't you? Usually they are very good at listening and discussing problems people may have.

I would guess that the delay in reply from MNHQ is related to the fact that the questions can't be answered by just one person (as they are tech related) and it's now the holiday period. Not a big deal really imo, we all need days off - I'm not posting in the expectation of an immediate answer.

If MN really wants this function, the only sensible way is to have a two-click process.

First click gets you to pop-up box which
a) allows you to cancel (not scrabble around trying to find and delete afterwards)
b) states which FB wall the thread is being liked on.

Second click actually likes on FB.

A one-click function as at the moment is just indefensible.

I think that is exactly how it is supposed to work ThisIs, but people have been reporting that that hasn't been their experience.

I would also have concerns about smartphone glitches, given that mine at least seems to have a mind of its own and doesn't always respond cleanly to whatever you have clicked on.

Yes Bobbin, but they chose to launch it, glitch and all, at 4.30 on a Thursday afternoon just before Christmas when Justine was in France.

They knew there would be a lot of objection.

It wouldn't take much to come onto this thread and say "We recognise there is a fault, we are warning people that X, Y and Z can happen, we apologise for this. In addition we will look at any other queries, and answer them by X date".

Instead they are ignoring it all, and hoping we will all go away which I find very disappointing.

Agree, Bobbin. The way it's actually happening at the moment is one click. Which is indefensible.

(Sorry, didn't make that clear above.)

Take the following scenario.

A & B know each other in RL and FB, and are both on MN. A has good privacy on FB and never FB-likes MN threads.

A starts a MN thread about something that happens to her DC at school. B sees the thread and likes it to FB.

But B is also FB friends with C through Z, and does not have good privacy. So now C-Z are reading A's MN thread. They assume, from context, that it's about the school they all have in common, and therefore some recognise A or the incident or other dramatis personae.

So A's thread, that would have gone unnoticed before, and would anyway have been anonymous without context, is now very identifiable indeed. A can't control this - she's not the one who has given away the identifying details.

(Can I have a badge for using the most acronyms/letters in a single post?)

Thisis, but that could have happened before, via the share on fb posts.

Yes, Lissie, which most of us already objected to, but were ignored.

And most of us actually hid (at least we hid the dangle-y link-y thing-y

The end result, whether mumsnet towers admit it or not, is going to be less support for people who need support on sensitive matters.

There will continue to be as much joking around, and probably more traffic to the site, so from a numbers/advertising/revenue point of view it will be a success. But from a "support for parents" point of view, I don't think so.

I think it's all about risk of 'accidents' though, isn't it?

It's not really helpful to say 'well if you don't want to be outed by an accidental Like, don't hit the Like button'. It's a bit like saying 'if you don't want to have a car accident, don't bump into other cars'.

Putting prominent 'Like' buttons at the top of threads is a bit like tampering with the brakes - it increases the risk of an accident. Plus as ThisIs says, it might be another 'driver' who outs you through FB anyway.

I simply don't understand why those of us who don't want it, say they would never use it, can't simply hide it .

If you don't answer anything else Justine, would you consider answering that. Please.

Everyone else can leave it there and use it as and when they want to surely.

Hi FAB I can understand why people are nervous about it.

For me, I n/c enough, I think, to avoid RL identification anyway and don't have many FB 'friends' so don't see it as being a problem.

And I am one of those who might 'recognise' you if you NC, but if I do, I am recognising FAB from MN, not you in RL (not sure if others do in that way),

Also there is a website called 'boardreader' which pretty much re-posts everything we type on MN, I found by putting my nn & 'mumsnet' into google.

So have always been aware of how 'open' everything is, but n/c can stop anything stalkery although MN 'regulars' can still recognise if you want them to.

(am fellow crazy cat lady btw, think that is what I would recognise )

Hello.

We are here and reading this thread - and not ignoring you. Apols for not actually being able to post till now.

OK, as we've posted before, we are aware of some of the techie problems with the Like button and we're working hard to fix them.

The glitch that some people have found, where you don't get a pop-up box saying you're about to post the 'Like' to your FB wall: that turns out to be a bug in the code Facebook supply with the button. It's a bug that Facebook are aware of but, obviously, we can't change Facebook's code for them. We are, however, looking into ways of getting around this bug ourselves.

The other problem that people have identified - when they click 'cancel' in the pop-up box and the thread is still posted to their FB wall - is not actually a glitch; it's a misunderstanding (probably initially inadvertently spread by me ) of what the 'cancel' is referring to. The pop-up box is actually asking you if you want to add a comment to the thread you're liking on FB, so the 'cancel' refers to that - cancelling your comment/or your intention to add a comment, not cancelling your wish to 'Like' the thread on your FB wall.

If you don't want to 'Like' the thread, after you've clicked 'Like' (accidentally or not), you need to scroll back over the 'Like' button on the Mumsnet thread, and the little tick in the top left of the 'Like' button will change to a little cross, you click, and then it removes the 'Like' from your FB page and cancels your Like on the thread (which means that the Like counter will readjust).

As for the problem of people finding that pressing the 'Like' button posts the thread to the FB walls of other people in their family, that's something that can be solved by making sure anyone using FB on a shared computer logs out of FB before someone else uses the computer. They'll also need to disable their cookies, which everyone using a shared computer should be doing really, to safeguard themselves and each other.

Thanks Helen.

Is there any code available with the option to make "liking" the thread truly a 2-step process? Facebook are not doing a very good design job if they think that people will be able to guess that "cancel" means "proceed without adding a comment".

@Trills

Thanks Helen.

Is there any code available with the option to make "liking" the thread truly a 2-step process? Facebook are not doing a very good design job if they think that people will be able to guess that "cancel" means "proceed without adding a comment".

That's something we're looking into as well, Trills. We certainly hope so.

I might even suggest that they are being disingenuous not just because it's fun to use the word they want you to use the button and they don't want you to cancel...

So, what you are saying is that if you click it, whether on accident or on purpose, it posts immediately to your FB page? Thats pretty crap isn't it?

That is something that is crap about FB in general (from my limited venture into its murky world). Very easy to like and add stuff but a PITA to find the right way to delete it again.