Reply to Justine

[TheOriginalFAB]

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

'And any one who is so convinced of their "signature" tone is narcissistic to say the least. Either that or they've got an attitude that needs looking at.'

Bollocks, I'm afraid. I can recognise some people on here instantly however many times they namechange...same with me and my best friend. She always figured me out.

I've only just found this thread but Fab, I'm with you and what a well written OP.

Fwiw MNHQ the ghost writing thing is happening on this thread. Ads running are Jellyfingers and Argos.

Objecting to Facebook isn't like objecting to people. FFS

So what, you want Mumsnet to forever stay the same? I'm sorry but this is a growing and expanding business and there are plenty of competitors happy to step into the place that Mumsnet would leave vacant. If Mumsnet doesn't embrace social networking sites and the like, then it wouldn't be doing itself any favours.

Some might treat this site as their own personal property where they can come and meet up with friends, rant about their husbands and share family secrets and it is all of that, but it's also out there in the public and that will never change. Many people benefit from Mumsnet and there are many more who could benefit - by using facebook, Mumsnet is bringing itself to them.

MNHQ have said that they will take comments on board and will make changes to try and appease those affected. That's surely all you can ask for? The rest of it, like shared laptops, clicking iPhones and the like really aren't the problem of MNHQ although they have still listened and tried to sort issues out.

I think the main crux is not that people might click on it by accident, but that they want Mumsnet to remain a bit of a secret, they don't want it getting any bigger or changing. And that is an impossible ask.

"I think the main crux is not that people might click on it by accident, but that they want Mumsnet to remain a bit of a secret, they don't want it getting any bigger or changing. And that is an impossible ask."

Possibly for some people - in my case that is DEFINITELY not true. I have always been paranoid

For me the main crux IS the accidental clicking, and the fact that people may not realise what clicking the FB buttons mean - ie that a specific MN thread will be posted to their FB feed for all their FB friends to see.

Aitch - out of interest, if you clicked Like on a BF thread here, for example, would it post that thread to your 'personal' FB or your FB BLW Group, or both?

And really, there can't be that many MN users who honestly think MN is a 'safe enclave' that only a few know about after all the publicity it has received in the last two or three years.

The fact that it is 'bigger' than ever actually makes it safer to post in some ways, as your own posts are only a few amongst tens of thousands of others ever day. But linking specific threads to your personal FB account alters these odds dramatically.

Bobbin - have you tried clicking on the Like button? When you do, it comes up with a box (if you are signed into facebook) with your fb profile picture on asking if you want to post it to your wall of if you want to unlike. So if you accidently clicked on it, you can click on unlike or merely close the box and NOTHING will appear on your wall. If you didn't know what the Like button did, then you would do when the box appeared.

Most people who use facebook know what happens when you click on a facebook like, and if they don't then it's about time they found out. You cannot hold MNHQ responsible for those people who do not know how facebook works yet feel they are responsible enough to have a facebook account. If you got so far as to opening a facebook account, posting updates and uploading photos then you surely to God should be able to figure out about joining groups, clicking on likes and so forth.
.

I had an FB account for a while but wishing to keep it separate from other sites is I think totally justified.

I rarely clicked on anything, joined any apps, or whatever they are and I didn't ever do anything that said ';'I allow this thing to post to my wall and my friends' walls'. Or if I did, I unsubscribed to it immediately after. People use FB in different ways, not all appreciate the more networking side of it...some just like to keep in vague touch with distant relatives and friends. And share photos etc.

So though I accept that MN has to 'keep up' I do have a big problem with facebook, (which I have now permanently deleted my account from) and I don't like the two being affiliated.

But it is a case of take it or leave it and tbh I may well leave it in the near future. (MN I mean)

Is it just me or have the buttons gone?

QS
That is a good point, but I do agree with Aitch (it is becoming habit forming) that the good will outweigh the bad.

I am 1000x more likely to share an ranty thread about a political issue than something about a poster's personal issues. In fact, I cannot think of a reason to share a relationship thread, unless it was, "Can anyone help this poor woman" kind of thing, and even then I would be more likely to do it via PM.

I did share a thread of that nature on FB recently, but by PMing a poster who I knew had experience in the area and asking her to have a look at the thread.

We do have to have faith that the majority of MNetters have the sense to do this. And those who would point and laugh at someone's misfortune would do so by C&Ping anyway.

I actually hate the idea of my writing being posted on FB. I really do. I see that '26' next to the like button up there and I think, What? What gives you the right to publish my posts on that horrib;e website.

I realise that makes me naive but I wish it didn't. I wish what I wrote on here stayed on here. I didn't even like being in the MN books.

"Bobbin - have you tried clicking on the Like button? When you do, it comes up with a box (if you are signed into facebook) with your fb profile picture on asking if you want to post it to your wall of if you want to unlike. So if you accidently clicked on it, you can click on unlike or merely close the box and NOTHING will appear on your wall. If you didn't know what the Like button did, then you would do when the box appeared."

Er Cliff, I think you've missed out on what most of the hoo-ha on this thread is actually about - see Helen's post further down the thread on Monday which reads:

"The glitch that some people have found, where you don't get a pop-up box saying you're about to post the 'Like' to your FB wall: that turns out to be a bug in the code Facebook supply with the button. It's a bug that Facebook are aware of but, obviously, we can't change Facebook's code for them. We are, however, looking into ways of getting around this bug ourselves.

The other problem that people have identified - when they click 'cancel' in the pop-up box and the thread is still posted to their FB wall - is not actually a glitch; it's a misunderstanding (probably initially inadvertently spread by me ) of what the 'cancel' is referring to. The pop-up box is actually asking you if you want to add a comment to the thread you're liking on FB, so the 'cancel' refers to that - cancelling your comment/or your intention to add a comment, not cancelling your wish to 'Like' the thread on your FB wall."

So tell me what's so straightforward about hitting Like now?

Good morrow. I bring you tidings of great joy developments afoot.

OK, so as well as releasing the reconfiguration of the new Like button to make it properly two-stage and cancellable , we're also going to...

• Change it to a "recommend " button, rather than "like" button because we reckon that's a better word (smacks less of the trivial/icky/frivolous etc)

• Fix it so that people who really don't want to see it don't have to (ie they'll be able to hide it, if they're logged in to MN)

We hope to be able to release all of those changes for you tomorrow.

Wow!

and much mulled for you Helen

"Fear not" said HelenMumsnet she, for mighty dread had seized their troubled minds. "Glad tidings of great joy I bring, for you and all man mumsnetkind!"

Bobbin i was referring to the fixed like button. The glitches you mentioned were ironed out way before I contributed to this thread and have been ironed out even more now by tech and MNHQ as per Helen's post. They always would have been ironed out, it just took a couple of days. I honestly think that some people expect MNHQ to cancel days off and work around the clock merely to address their particular issues.

I take it that's the problem solved then?

Good changes, thanks for listening.

and a Happy Christmas to all!

Helen, does that mean it will become an option to remove it under Customise ? Been trying to follow the issue and am only an occasional FB user anyway.

Thank you Helen.

@LIZS

Helen, does that mean it will become an option to remove it under Customise ? Been trying to follow the issue and am only an occasional FB user anyway.

I'm not quite sure, LIZS. It depends what works best and what's easiest for Tech to code up and implement. But that's certainly the kind of thing...

Thank you Helen

Cliff - that's not my understanding of what has happened at all, but perhaps I have missed something

Incidentally I haven't ever expected MNHQ to instantly fix anything , of course it is the holidays etc. The reason I have banged on kept putting forward my arguments was to answer all the people who kept saying ' there IS no problem, it's just that people are too stupid to understand the internet', etc.

Thanks Helen.

FWIW, for those who have criticised those who have installed ad blocker, fair enoughtually agree with that point, and think that the ads on MN are unobtrusive and sometimes interesting, and I didn't want to block them.

However, the Mozilla instructions I gave pages ago actually do NOT remove the ads, they only remove the FB link, which IS useful, because that ubiquitous FB link crap gets on my nerves on all sites.

Thanks.

I shall remove my adblocker and thingy, in due course.

Aitch and Cliff, I agree with the secret club points. But, unless you have a mn id an post on facebook with a similar id as your mumsnet name which is open to all, then facebook IS l e a secret club.

Thank you Helen, I appreciate you taking my concerns seriously . I know a lot of people think I'm making a moutain out of a molehill just to be stroppy, but it really isn't that. Also I hope I haven't been rude, and if I have I apologise.

As soon as the option to disable/hide is ready (coupled with a secure two-click button), I'm happy to remove the ad-blocker (if I can, but I'm going to try to keep a Facebook blocker and I might stick with Chrome, I rather like it).

I agree with you Bobbin as well - the reason I was going on and on and on and on and on was because I felt very misunderstood by all the people for whom it isn't, in fact, a problem.

I still think there may be requests to remove it from a few extra boards - maybe you could have a look at that at some stage.

Thanks again, and bucket-loads of mulled .

well done, Helen, knew it would all be sorted out in the end.

oh and Thank God re 'recommend'. i bet Zuck has the trademark on 'like' anyway.

Some interesting stories kicking around atm about Facebook's new "sponsored stories" coming in 2012, which are apparently adverts appearing on your FB page based on your friends' likes/recommends on third-party sites. I.e. your "like" action won't just put something onto the FB wall, it will (potentially) be used to generate targetted content in the advert field of FB pages. There is legal action afoot in the US because these adverts will feature the "likers'" names and photos, presenting them as brand endorsers.

Presumably MN has a privacy statement somewhere where use of cookies etc is detailed. Will that be updated to show the potential use FB will make of the likes/recommends for products that Mumsnet's advertisers will presumably be seeking to generate from the product threads? Or won't MN's advertisers be allowed to seek to generate FB promotional content from our recommends?