Am I the only one to be a bit sad that Mumsnet have caved in?

[oliveoil]

Don't know, just feel a bit that some people felt it necessary to report mumsnet to a baby milk board or whatever it is for a so called breach of advertising. If you use and love a website why on earth would you want to get them into trouble?

Hmmmmm. I bet they feel like they have been beaten up this week. Storm in a teacup.

V weird.

I think that is the core issue mmh. Alot of people didn't/don't know about the sinister agenda of these companies.

They don't want you to know.

This is why people become very passionate,because it is a completely separate issue to the one of whether women choose to breast or bottle feed.

There is a change coming about. People are becoming more discerning consumers,much more concerned about ethical issues. Who would have thought that Fair Trade was going to be as big as it is (and will continue to be?)

15 years ago,the general consensus was that only drippy hippies were concerned about these issues.

Can I also second Giraffeski's point, nobody reported Mumsnet, they reported Milupa.

For all of those who condemn those of us who reported Milupa (I spoke to the NCT about them - a body largely run by unpaid volunteers which exists to give women more choice in pregnancy, birth and mothering) can you answer me this question: Do you honestly think it is acceptable that Milupa runs a helpline which deliberately sabotages breastfeeding? And if it is not acceptable, what should we do about it? Ignore it?

I like the Guardian as well, but if the Guardian ran an ad which directed mothers to this helpline on the pretence that they would get genuine help to bf, I'd report the ad. I like the Independent, which is also carrying ads for this disreputable company - and I'll be reporting that ad to the ASA.

Is anyone really telling me that I am morally wrong to report this ruthless company to organisations who have very little power to counter what they're doing anyway? Are you really saying that we should just accept the fact that Milupa should be allowed to f*k women and children because we like the media vehicles they are using to promote that?

People boycotting/ and or reporting the independent or guardian is not quite the same IMO as people boycotting/ reporting an internet site like mumsnet.

Presumably the big papers have far more funds and legal expertise at their disposal. They will not suddenly be losing a huge chunk of their
running costs by refusing to carry a single Milupa ad.

Mumsnet is much more vulnerable, isn't it? It is run on a near shoestring by semi volunteers. The Milipa ad revenue represents, from what I have
read, three months of server costs. What would have happenend if the team had announced that the loss of income meant closing the site?. Or
that this latest problem, even though partly their fault, was the final straw and their family commitments had to come first?

If you boycott The Independent you are doing it a a personal protest. You may tell friends and pressure groups of your decision, but you are not sharing and discussing your viewpoint with the entire readership of the newspaper! Boycotting a website like mumsnet and then posting on talk about it, is a lot more public, isn't it? I am sure many people did contact the team direct with their views on the legality of the ad. What then was the advantage of stirring up lots of talk threads too?

I am not saying it's wrong to take a stand against the milupa ads. But reporting the milupa ad on mumsnet to outside agencies, sorry, but however much you say you are not bringing mumsnet into this, in my humble opinion you are - because you are saying mumsnet accepted the ad. Anyone can click on the milupa site and advice line - no reason why the team did not do that themselves. So to say, of course mumsnet is not involved as the team is completly ignorant of its content is a bit daft? I am sure you will disagee with me, fair enough - I think we will have to agree to disagree here.

I understand the team were on holiday and would be meeting to discuss things when everyone was back. Did mumsnet HQ really get a chance to sort this out themselves? Might it have been better for mumsnet to do its own policing and contact
milupa direct? In the last few days, I saw a real risk of mumsnet closing, because of the way a group of people felt about one advertiser.

hear hear tigermoth. missed lots of this (thank god) but well put.

Threads about Milupa were inevitable though. This is a discussion forum, of course something controversial on the site itself was going to be discussed!

Face it guys

its all

just

SNURK>>

Agree with your rational, mature post Tigermoth

At first I thought it was all abit OT, then I found out my BFI guide and read the guidleines. They're clear enough, and I am glad Mumsnet listens to us, would hate it other way round

Tigermoth fair enough that Mumsnet is not financially as secure as other media outlets, but you can write papers to the newspapers telling them you're not happy with xy and z, which they may or may not publish (not the same as several lively concurrent debates I accept - though don't lots of media outlets now have online message boards?)

But it comes back to the Milupa helpline and what you think that those of us who feel strongly about it should do about it, if not discuss it with bodies like Baby Milk Action, the NCT and the legal body someone contacted? What other measures are open to us?

Personally I think the team should have been the first ones to contact the other sites for clarification on where they stood regarding the milupa ad.

Were the mumsnet team aware beforehand that members were thinking of contacting baby milk action, NCT and legal bodies? I got the impression the team did not have much, if any, warning.

It would have been better, in my opinion, if people had emailed the team direct, outlining why the milupa ad was breaking guidelines, with links to, or quotes from, the baby milk action, NCT and legal websites.

Someone said one of those sites discovered the milupa ad on mumsnet independently. Why not just let the team know that the ad was causing concern to outside agencies via an email, so they could have dealt with it?

It happened,tigermoth. I started a thread on 12th August called 'What are you good people at MN doing getting involved in a tie in with Aptimil?'

hth

but weren't the team on holiday? You say you started a thread - so not what I was getting at. Did you email them first and give them a chance to reply before posting your thread?

Well,the thread was posted on Site Stuff,so gosh,was I being incredibly think to assume that

a)Someone from MN just might find the time to glance over it.

b) Other people on MN might find my question and subsequent response from MN interesting.

c) MN might conceivably have better things to do than write e mails just to li'l ole' me.

Whaddya reckon???????????

your concerns are well meaning tigermoth but don't help in the long run. Not for one moment would a single ad like this bring down mumsnet. It isn't that easy to close down freespeech in this country yet I hope. Yes they need the money but then mumsnet's vulnerability despite its popularity makes it a perfect 'prey' to these underhand tactics. Mumsnet as a growing concern will make mistakes like any other enterprise but as long as she stays open to her 'customers' she will learn from it.

mumsnet will only be stronger for this little bit of adversity.I think many more of us' despite where we stand in this controversy' like this website more for taking a more ethical stand towards advertising. now they know where they and we know where they stand on formula promotion. Shushing up the issue would not have given the same scope for growth.

I meant commas, not quotes here: us' despite where we stand in this controversy' like

moondog, on the few occasions I have emailed the team they have always found the time to reply to me - might have to wait a week or two, but I've always had a response.

If the team were thin on the gound due to holidays, you posting on site stuff would not have speeded things up. The decision makers just weren't there!

Carrying, banning or amending the milupa ad needed a team meeting AFAIK - so any decisive response to you ( thread or email) would naturally be on hold to all the team had made that decision.

seems simple enough to me - yes?

Tigermoth,on said thread,Justine replies at 11:00 pm on 12th August explaining the situation and finishing
'we certainly value your thoughts,so keep 'em coming'.

Will that convince you that poor defenceless MN are not imminently under threat of annihiliation by a crowd of baying MNers?

also, in reply to alux, and others, why assume mumsnet actually needed pressure from a large njumber of mumsnet members to amend the ad?

The ad broke - or nearly broke - legal/ethical guidelines. Other sites were independently picking this fact up and stating it online.

Some emails from you and others to make sure the team were aware of these facts might have been all that was required to make the team change mumsnet's advertising policy.

Why assume the team would have ignored the legal risks and the bad publicity on other sites? The team have always seemed very receptive, reasonable and ethical people to me.

The groundswell of feeling helped mumsnet reach their decision, and they said so themselves. But there were other sound reasons, too, for banning the future milupa ads.

God,I give up. Off for a swim and a sunbathe.

"Not for one moment would a single ad like this bring down mumsnet." They would if the team decided they couldn't be bothered anymore.

Jimjams - so true, my dp runs a site (nothing like the scale of mumsnet...) but over Christmas he pretty close to jacking it in cos of the hassle....

then as a team mumsnet would be having severe problems anyway and the closing down would have been inevitable, milupa ad or no milupa ad. com'on give mumsmet more credibility than that.

I'm not questioning their credibility, but as they pointed out they have been at it four years with little to no financial reward (not saying that is everything, but it does matter...) My dp just got to the point of asking why he was spending so much time and effort and getting hassle in return....just supporting JJs comment, an ad CAN, IMHO bring a site down, becuase the people ehind it decide they have had enough..