Am I the only one to be a bit sad that Mumsnet have caved in?

[oliveoil]

Don't know, just feel a bit that some people felt it necessary to report mumsnet to a baby milk board or whatever it is for a so called breach of advertising. If you use and love a website why on earth would you want to get them into trouble?

Hmmmmm. I bet they feel like they have been beaten up this week. Storm in a teacup.

V weird.

[tigermoth]

I know you feel very strongly about this caligula, and I am not saying you should do nothing. And I do see you are far more anti the advice line (on mumsnet and any other site). And agree that giving out biased advice is very wrong.

Of course you should inform the NCT if you feel it would help. It's the timing I am getting at. People could have let the mumsnet team sort out their advertising policy first. Just given them a couple more weeks - they said they were on the case, but some of the team were on holiday. Couldn't alerts to the NCT
linking milupa to mumsnet have waited till the team had reached their decision?

OK I know that means some women just might have got duff advice in the meantime, but I so would hate this site, and ALL the good advice on it, to stop being available to so many parents.

sorry have to dash off now...hope this makes sense

[jabberwocky]

This is part of Justine's comment:

Mumsnet is run on a shoestring. To give you an idea, for those of you who haven?t downloaded our accounts , the four of us who?ve worked on it pretty much from the beginning did not earn anything at all for the first four years. This year is the first year any of us will have to pay tax and then only just! We have ploughed quite a lot in to mumsnet in terms of money, time and effort over the last five years. Yes we are a business in the sense we?re a limited company but any other business would have been shut down quite a while ago because usually you can?t get folks to work for free. Surprisingly mumsnet does take up a lot of time (what do we do you wonder...) We have a couple of part-time techs, three folks on three days a week and one pretty much full-time (not to mention weekends). Plus a lot of fab volunteers (like our competition and webguide managers, and of course our moderators) whom one day it would be nice to remunerate. We are not going to be able to do that on voluntary subscription alone; to give you some perspective subs have raised about £12k since they were introduced, that?s roughly the same as a three-month Milupa campaign. That?s not to say we aren?t enormously grateful to those who?ve voluntarily subscribed.

So, MN has given up a very much needed source of revenue over this issue.

Hulababy, as I said, I do not presume to know everyone's finances. Obviously, not every single poster can afford a sub. Here in the US, $2 is about the price of two sodas. I can easily give up that to support MN.

[alux]

Things only really kicked off when Tiktok saw a thread on Breast and Bottlefeeding about the milupa advertorial on the frontpage. Tiktok cannot be associated with a going concern where formula is seen to be promoted. It's because she is a BF counsellor for NCT and its in her code of practice to not lend 'support by association' to formula.

Mears also considered leaving as she is a midwife who refuses to attend seminars that formula companies fund. (Illegal again under the International code)

As the word spread and other members understood why Milupa was walking a fine line of legality if not downright illegal with their advertorial, they also decided to walk away.

It is not about blackmailing MN into doing anything. Its about pointing out the legalities of what milupa was doing.

[Carla]

I'll have a look now, but what's the connection between a milupa ad and a £10 MN fee?

[caligula]

But for me, the ad on mumsnet isn't really the issue. The issue is this helpline. In the great scheme of things I don't think one media outlet will make much difference, but what I do care about, is that Milupa are running this "helpline" and advertising it on many media vehicles, and they have to be stopped. Or at least publicised so that their helpline is brought into disrepute, so that vulnerable, desperate mothers don't phone it thinking that they might get some help from it, because they'll get some warning from family, friends, HV's etc. - anyone who has heard about Milupa's underhand tactics.

And nobody has yet told me what positive action I should take, in order to effectively oppose what Milupa are doing. People have told me I shouldn't have alerted the NCT to the advice they gave one of the Mumsnet posters. Why should the NCT not be told of this? It gives them valuable ammunition in their lobbying activiities. And if they shouldn't be told of this, what, please, am I practically allowed to do to oppose Milupa?

[Hulababy]

£10 IS a lot for some people, especially for being able to use a parenting website. For some people that £10 is far better spent on other things. If MN had a compulsary fee, people would stop using MN, and would go and use other parenting sites - as there are many out there that are completely free. Surely this wouldn't be desirable?

Maybe rather than having a compulsary or pressuried into (not by MN team BTW, but some thread recently, and a bit by having a list online to show contributors (not all on there though) ) fee then members should consider alternative fund making ways for the site - more appropraite sponsors/advertising, more books/TV series and their marketing/publicity, etc.

[jabberwocky]

There is a milupa ad on the homepage. I'm in the US but apparently there are very strict guidelines regarding formula adverts in the UK and some MN'ers became quite upset that milupa may have crossed the line. Hence a boycott of "many valuable members".

[Carla]

Thanks jabber, but who was boycotting what? Where was the original milupa ad? On MN?

[jabberwocky]

Sorry, Carla, it was on this thread. Have copied for you.

People boycotting/ and or reporting the independent or guardian is not quite the same IMO as people boycotting/ reporting an internet site like mumsnet.

Presumably the big papers have far more funds and legal expertise at their disposal. They will not suddenly be losing a huge chunk of their
running costs by refusing to carry a single Milupa ad.

Mumsnet is much more vulnerable, isn't it? It is run on a near shoestring by semi volunteers. The Milipa ad revenue represents, from what I have
read, three months of server costs. What would have happenend if the team had announced that the loss of income meant closing the site?. Or
that this latest problem, even though partly their fault, was the final straw and their family commitments had to come first?

If you boycott The Independent you are doing it a a personal protest. You may tell friends and pressure groups of your decision, but you are not sharing and discussing your viewpoint with the entire readership of the newspaper! Boycotting a website like mumsnet and then posting on talk about it, is a lot more public, isn't it? I am sure many people did contact the team direct with their views on the legality of the ad. What then was the advantage of stirring up lots of talk threads too?

I am not saying it's wrong to take a stand against the milupa ads. But reporting the milupa ad on mumsnet to outside agencies, sorry, but however much you say you are not bringing mumsnet into this, in my humble opinion you are - because you are saying mumsnet accepted the ad. Anyone can click on the milupa site and advice line - no reason why the team did not do that themselves. So to say, of course mumsnet is not involved as the team is completly ignorant of its content is a bit daft? I am sure you will disagee with me, fair enough - I think we will have to agree to disagree here.

I understand the team were on holiday and would be meeting to discuss things when everyone was back. Did mumsnet HQ really get a chance to sort this out themselves? Might it have been better for mumsnet to do its own policing and contact
milupa direct? In the last few days, I saw a real risk of mumsnet closing, because of the way a group of people felt about one advertiser.


giraffeski, I don't presume to know everyone's finances and can understand that a sub might be out of reach for some people. However, from what I understand, if everyone contributed a minimum of 10 pounds it would completely cover the costs of running MN. I'm on the US and don't know current conversions, but I believe that is around $20 or less than $2 a month. Not a huge sum, really.

[Carla]

jabber, can you remember the thread title?

[giraffeski]

Message withdrawn

[jabberwocky]

Oh, wait, it was 9:18 yesterday

[jabberwocky]

Sorry Carla, was thinking of another thread.

[jabberwocky]

Also here

[Carla]

jabber, there isn't one.

[jabberwocky]

tigermoth's post of 9:18 should catch you up fairly well, Carla.

[Carla]

Oh, please!

[Carla]

Blimey, haven't got time to read the whole thread. Would someone be kind enough to let me know what happened?

[jabberwocky]

Personally, I also have to say I'm feeling a bit that some of us are valued more than others. I know that I do not post every day and my profession does not involve bfing or birthing or childcare but I am a mother. Pregnancy and bfing take up the first two or three years of motherhood only (in general ). There is a whole lifetime of experiences afterwards that are also quite important. I may not be as witty as other posters, but MN has been a lifeline for me. I would hate to see it go over this, but would not blame them one bit. Am also at how few posters have coughed up a sub. When you value something, you should put your money where your mouth is.

[Jimjams]

exactly blackduck. I've given up things 2 things in the past that I was doing for free because of the hassle I got. Everyone has their "sod it- YOU do it then" limit. I think mnet does hope that one day this business will pay their mortgages etc, so I'm sure they can take more hassle than if it was a complete freebie, but still.

[jabberwocky]

Have been lurking on most of these threads as I really don't want to get sucked into the whole discussion IYKWIM. However, I just wanted to say tigermoth, that I totally agree with your post of 9:18.

[Blackduck]

I'm not questioning their credibility, but as they pointed out they have been at it four years with little to no financial reward (not saying that is everything, but it does matter...) My dp just got to the point of asking why he was spending so much time and effort and getting hassle in return....just supporting JJs comment, an ad CAN, IMHO bring a site down, becuase the people ehind it decide they have had enough..

[alux]

then as a team mumsnet would be having severe problems anyway and the closing down would have been inevitable, milupa ad or no milupa ad. com'on give mumsmet more credibility than that.

[Blackduck]

Jimjams - so true, my dp runs a site (nothing like the scale of mumsnet...) but over Christmas he pretty close to jacking it in cos of the hassle....

[Jimjams]

"Not for one moment would a single ad like this bring down mumsnet." They would if the team decided they couldn't be bothered anymore.