Understanding the concept of love in open relationships or swinging

[OMGDidYouSayThat]

Thought a new thread would keep things alive, i have no prejudice against anyones relationship choices but i'm intrigued to know how swingers and those in open relationships quantify love for their partners...

In my black & white mind i can't seem to make the relationship between loving someone/each other and watching them with someone else.

I have no experience of an open relationship or swinging (not my 'thing' at all) but I can see the difference between a loving relationship and sexual attraction.

You will always be attracted to others whether you are in a relationship or not. So I can understand how the two happen independently and side-by-side. It's just another type of 'turn-on' for some.

As long as it's all out in the open so to speak, each to their own! (Not for me though!)

I would question the idea of 'love' in an open relationship; I would accept that they may be 'fond of' or they like them a great deal.

It depends what sex means for you I think. Sex is a deep connection with my partner but it is also my favourite physical hobby. I don’t like tennis, golf or gardening, but I do like sex and some of that is the entertainment and relaxation side of it. It’s not too complicated; I enjoy going to restaurants as an intimate time with my partner, but also enjoy going with friends and sharing that experience. I do get though that for many/most people sex is so intimate, personal and private that the idea of other people being involved is revolting.

It just comes down to how your brain is wired.
Some people are maths geniuses who would struggle to draw a match stick man and others can paint the Sistine chapel and perhaps struggle with 2+2.
So I think when it comes to sex and love the mind of someone who is non monogamous operates very differently to that of someone who is so there is little point in trying to fathom how it all works!

I think you have to have done a lot of work in yourself first, and be very stable, to enter into polygamy in which you truly love multiple people and share true intimacy with each of them.

I think that many aspire, but few achieve this.

I’m leaning towards the fact they don’t love at all, maybe the relationship with their partner is more like a fuck buddy setup where their main interest is just having sex with others, no feelings present.

I can only imagine that they don’t actually love their partner in an emotional way, i know i couldn’t watch a partner getting banged by someone else without it destroying me.

I definitely get the attraction thing, i don’t know if you know that feeling you get when you’ve been cheated on, i hope you don’t to be fair, but surely if you love someone you’d get that same feeling whether you consented to your partner having sex with someone else or not.

@OMGDidYouSayThat

It's an interesting question and one that I have struggled with.

You can zero in further on it by considering the difference between a close friendship and an emotional affair with no physical side.

Do you think the difference between a close friendship and an emotional affair is attraction?

I can be close friends with you because i’m not attracted to you but if i was i’d also have an emotional connection with you. Does attraction play a part or is it something else?

Maybe so. That would go some way to explaining why lesbian and gay folk often have closer friends of the opposite sex. But it must be difficult to be bisexual!

Do you ever experience "friend chemistry"? Like, when you hit it off with a new person and you both have an energy and a vibe that is almost like flirting but with no component of sexual attraction?

@moderate that’s a hard question to answer but yes i think so, i’m a red blooded male so i use distancing as a method to avoid flirtation and emotional closeness so that i don’t end up in situations i can’t handle.

I’ve definitely been close friends with girls before but i can’t honestly say that i haven’t found any of them unattractive as i tend to see qualities that are more than skin deep, like i can be attracted to you because of your personality even if i don’t find you physically attractive.

I’m probably not the right person to answer this question though because i don’t get much emotional connection at home so it hits me like a brick if i get compliments from a friend or a stranger and it can be a bit hard to contain, whereas most people would just say thanks and brush it off.

Lots of different things being conflated here though. I think of polyamory as completely different from swinging and different again from an open relationship.

So I also struggled to get my head around it and didn't understand for a long time. Hubby said it's nothing to do with not loving me but he loved the idea of seeing me having fun and being pleased. His favourite thing has always been watching me cum etc, and has been less bothered about himself. He said he trusts me 100% which is why he's able to think about the idea of me with someone else and says sex can be purely that instead of love (which I get, I've had one night stands before etc where its purely that). Took a long time to get there for us but have done a few times now and both enjoying it

Have you ever had extra-marital experiences that go beyond "purely just sex" though?

To me it sounds as if you've almost had to train yourself to enjoy swinging. Which is fine if this just translates into extra pleasure for you both ad infinitum. But isn't there the risk that someone catches feelings?

But have you never experienced that chemistry with another heterosexual man? If you haven't, it's difficult to describe but it's actually quite freeing because you can just deepen your connection without wondering whether there is going to be any misunderstanding about romantic involvement. If it were with someone whom you were sexually attracted to, as a married man you would indeed have to use distancing so that you don't end up in a difficult situation.

I totally agree about finding the attractiveness in someone despite them not being conventionally attractive, and perhaps that has some crossover with finding chemistry with someone despite neither of you finding the other sexually attractive.

I'm sorry to hear you don't have emotional connection at home. From what you say, if you had an open relationship it would almost certainly draw you into a more emotional affair and you presumably have other reasons for not wanting to break off the marriage.

Agreed. And even within swinging there seems to be various permutations (penetrative sex fine but no kissing, vs kissing fine but no penetrative sex, etc.)

If you'd consented, it wouldn't be cheating though. So what you're describing is plain jealousy.

Like you, I find it difficult to imagine getting physically involved with someone without getting emotionally attached to them as well, and it's the threat of this emotional attachment that forms the basis of the jealousy. But if the DP were able to indulge in the physical without feeding the emotional, I can see that this fits with the "if you love someone, set them free" notion of what love is.

Or perhaps it's all just degrees of kink? I remember one of the guys on Channel 4's "Open House" got off specifically on the frisson of the jealousy, to the extent that the setup disappointed him because it was all far too consensual.

Interestingly enough i've never really thought of it like that, i do have what i'd call closer relationships with some male friends than with others, completely non sexual orientated as i'm comfortable with my straightness, but usually with older ones which i kind of put down to me seeing them more as a father figure than a mate if that makes sense, i never really had a strong bond with my dad so i think it's somehow linked to that.

I am madly in love with my wife and love her so much, the feeling is mutual!

We have been swinging for 4 years or so, we both enjoy it and it enhances our love life. I enjoy watching other men have sex with my wife and enjoy the thrill of sex with other women, we only play safe and together in the same room. Usually clubs and parties. Our sex life together is fabulous. However the swinging with others is just sex nothing more, if she went on a date or for a drink with another man I would be livid and couldn't handle it.

I'm not sure i will ever be able to truly understand how you manage to get your mind to be ok with someone else banging your wife and vice versa...i'm trying to understand it but it's not making any sense yet.

If you don't mind me asking, is there any quantitative or qualitative difference between sex with your wife and sex with the other women? Like, does sex with your wife have the quality of making love rather than just having sex? And do you know whether your wife feels the same way?

Good question @moderate

+1

A good question indeed.

I guess its just fun to enjoy other people sexually as well as with the person you truly love and trust implicitly.

Sex with my wife us totally different, firstly no condom and we know each other's bodies so well and what we like . The quality is unsurpassed .We are both very sexual people with high sex drives and we have sex most days sometimes more if the kids aren't around.

However swinging gives opportunities that you cant get with just 2 people, we both enjoy group sex and my wife always fantasised about enjoying more than one man at a time, as well as other women and this allows us to indulge ourselves. We love the reclaim sex between is afterwards and discussing what we enjoyed and didn't lol. We are both in our late 40s not models, but scrub up reasonably well and the scene allows my wife in particular to play with men she couldn't in real life including much younger, fitter men and I get off on that as well.

Its not for everyone, it will break a bad relationship, communication and respect is absolutely key in everything we do.

We both love the social side of swinging as well. You meet some amazing people and have a right laugh. Some of our meets have been crap. Some average and lots are amazing but we do it all together and giggle and its our little secret we share together.