Secondary Appeal

[gillybean2]

My ds's secondary school appeal is on Monday and I'm after some help please! If you can help on any of the issues below, or give me any further arguments I can bring up, I would very much appreciate it. This is long I'm afraid, hope you can make it to the end...

1. I understand that I am meant to be given 10 working days notice of the appeal and that the admissions authority case must arrive no later than 7 working days before the hearing.

I did tick the box of the form saying I agree to less than 14 days notice of the appeal hearing. However I assumed I would get notification and then if an earlier date was available I would be informed of this.
But I have been waiting for months for details!
The school advised several weeks ago (after me asking) that appeals would probably be held on 21&22 June and confirmation of this would be sent. So they knew this date ages ago. Why did they then choose to wait till a week to go before officially informing me!

Secondly I spoke to the school again last week as had not received anything. They assured me the authority had sent it out. I actually received the documents on Monday 14th, and our appeal date is on Monday 21st.
How strongly can I argue that they have not fulfilled their requirements of 7 working days notice, and therefore have not followed procedure and my ds should get a place as a result!?

2. The statement from the admissions authority states the total capcity of the school is set at 1248, and numbers in any one year group is 216. They then list the current and expected numbers for each year as follows: Yr 7 216 Yr8 214 Yr9 217 Yr10 195 Yr11 216 Sixth Form 206 (112+94) Total 1264

I know they have had to accept a child who have won an appeal in the past (the friend coming with me won her ds's appeal). And the numbers show (Yr9) that they can accomodate an extra child.
So on a year by year basis, and given they've set a precedent in the past, I am arguing that they can clearly accomodate an extra child.

The sticking point is that they are over their total capacity numbers. However this is because of the sixth form.
How should I tackle this?

Last year the sith form numbers were 171 (98+73). So the children moving up has gone down from 98 to 94. All the extra children are moving into the 6th form this year. In accepting so many extra sixth formers they have put themselves over their total capacity.

I calculate thet Yr 7 to Yr 11 at 216 students is 1080. As total capacity is 1248 they should only have 168 students in the sixth form. But they are taking in 206 in september!

So I'm thinking that the over subscribed sixth form has no relevance on an individual lower class taking one extra child.

Also I understand that school's get extra money for sixth form student's. So the school have choosen to go over capacity. They would not be if it was not for extra in the sixth form. Given that they are taking on that many sixth formers it leads me to assume the over capacity issue is either a non issue, or is not relevant to sixth form.

They then list general issues associated with excessive numbers as follows:

1. Most classrooms are quite small and putting more than 27 in a class makes it very crammed & in some cases would be a health and safety issue.

** My arguments
a) You've done it before, and are currently.
b) Very cramped seems an overstatement. The agreed admitance is set at 216 so your classes must be able to adequately accept that number.
c) You must have considered the health and safety issues before as you have a class of more than 27 in year 9 already and have accepted that any risk is acceptable.

2. Catering facilities are restricted and this results at congestion in eating areas at lunch & break times. In addition, time taken to provide in-house food for all students who require it, means that students are late for their afternoon lessons.

** My arguments
a) My ds is vegetarian and prefers to bring his own packed lunch to school. He will therefore have no impact on in-house food provision and will not be late for afternoon lessons.
b) Anyone who is late will not have been affected by my ds being there.
c) My ds will be eating his packed lunch right away, thus freeing up space in the eating area quickly allowing those queuing for food to have his seat back relatively quickly (sooner than they would get their dinner from the sounds of it).

3. School lacks communal areas for students to congregate. Result is students spend much of lunch & beak times outside. Excessive student numbers leads to pressure on the management of lunchbreak.
   ** My arguments
   a) Yr 7 have their own outdoor area for break times. One more child in this area, particularly a well behaved child like my ds, will not be a burden on management of lunchbreak.
   b) IMO, where possible children should be encouraged to be outside at break time, so how is it a problem that they are outdoors?

4. As a result of high overall numbers, the use of teaching rooms is extremely high. Results in some subjects having to use non-specialist rooms, eg library. And some subjects are taught in non-specialist areas eg science. This indicates that shortage of teaching space is not in one particular area, but is a general problem caused by the additional pressures resulting from excessive students in school.

** My arguments
a) The excessive students are entirely as a result of sixth form.
b) One additional child in a class will not have any affect on this issue. The class would already have had to use a non specialist area. Therefore this argument does not prejudice the other children if my child is accepted.
c) You have an additional child in Yr 8 (going into Yr 9), so you have already worked out how to accomodate an additional child in one clasee when necessary.

It summaries with a note:
Whilst we are sorry to have to deny your child a place, the inclusion of your child into a year group that is full would prejudice the efficient use of resources and the quality of education to students at school.

** My argument would be that one additional child in a year group would not unduly prejudice the rest of the students in that year group, for the reasons stated above.

If you made it this far I thank you! If you have then I am hoping that you can also help with advice or additional arguments please.

Many thanks
Gilly

The argument that springs to my mind is what makes your son so special that he is the only child that could be admitted as an extra to the year group? There may well be 50 other parents appealing each of whom say 'My one extra child will not effect lunchtimes, playground capacity etc'. Obviously one extra child won't really effect things that much, but why should your son be that one extra? Why not anyone else? why not two extra? The line has to be drawn somewhere, and has been.

Unless your ds has specific needs that ONLY this school can meet I'm not sure your argument will be upheld tbh.

Gilly,
No panel is going to admit on the basis that the time scales were not kept to. The admission authority have met the legal requirement in terms of getting the appeal information to you with 7 days notice.

The first thing to say about the schools case not to admit is that any panel member with any level of experience will have heard all these arguement many times. There is nothing novel about the schools case, it is a standard case and focuses on all the issues that I expect it to.

You are right to draw attention to the school's admissions to the sixth form and to some extent creating its own problem. I would however say that the average figure for pupils staying on into the 6th form is about 60% so this school is not retaining excessive pupils into its 6th form. The net capacity might have been exceeded but this is not unusual in a secondary school. the reason i say this is that the net capacity of any school has two figures, the actual measured figure and one that is 10% less than this. the school with the LA can set the net capacity at any figure in between these two figures that is sensible and realistic. I would ask in stage 1 of the appeal what the two figures are, as I suspect it is the lower of the two figures. If it is that will obviously give you the opportunity to argue that the school could take 10% more pupils in any one year group before it was really full ( that would be 21 extra)

I have to say the PAN at 216 is not a figure that immediately springs to mind. If it was 210 that would have been sensible (7 forms of entry of 30 pupils).

I would question the comment on the small size of classrooms - ask how many rooms out of the total number of general classrooms are not sized for 30 pupils. The schools case has the normal vague comment saying they exist. But how many are there really? I would also ask about class numbers in english and maths. I would bet on them having 30+ in the top sets and something below 20 in the bottom sets, most secondary schools do, so this tends to cast doubt on their belief that 27 is the maximum. This is the maximum that the unions would like to see in a class. No one disputes that small classes help but there has to be some level of realism.

The catering issues are a non starter. I would make the point as well as your points that it is for the school to make adequate provision to ensure that pupils can be adequately dealt with in the time span. It is not a reason to not admit pupils, it is actually a school management failure.

I think that you will make the panel think long and hard about whether the school can accomodate extra pupils in stage 1 of the appeal and to some extent the panel's decision will depend on the number of appealants. The panel has to decide whether all appealants can be admitted, not just 1 or 2. Obviously the more the number of appealants the less likely that they will make that decision. As the appeal is over two days I would expect that there will be 10 to 20 appealants. It is difficult to predict the outcome at stage 1 based on the case you have posted and the school numbers, so you also need to prepare as best you can for stage 2 where you present you own personal circumstances for admitting your child. Look for the positives in the school - what can the school offer your child that they want. Everybody is going to be saying its the best school and easiest to get to, you need to have some good strong reasons to admit that will make your appeal stand out.

There are a couple of people on here who are real experts in the technicalities of the appeals process and I'm sure you'll get some great advice from that perspective. I read every thread on appeals voraciously and found lots of useful tips.

I have just won an appeal for DD2 and was very surprised by the letter I received with the reasons the panel had upheld our appeal. A number of things that I had thought weren't supposed to count seemed to have made a difference. In fact, two of the bullet points in their letter referred to things I'd said off the cuff (in desperation!) and had not been part of my written appeal.

All the technical stuff forms a part of the formal part of the appeal, but you also get a chance to say why the decision not to offer your child a place has a personal impact. It is up to the panel to decide who will be more inconvenienced - your child or the school.

The bullet points in my letter were as follows (apologies if many are irrelevant, but I don't know what kind of school you are appealing for):

Your child has a sibling and the children are very close (we gave lots of supporting information to illustrate this)

Your family is active in the Church and are very regular worshippers (again, we had letters to support this).

A school with a Christian ethos is important to you.

Your comments as to how the school's Performing Arts Status would be beneficial to your child.

The logistics entailed in sisters attending different schools in view of your work commitments and not having relatives locally who could assist with transport.

I really hope there's something in there that can help you! Good luck with it, and let us know what happens.

Hi

V quick reply as at work

Thanks for the replies so far.

I have given lots of (imo) exceptionally good reasons why the school is the best one for my ds in my original appeal. have discussed with current head teacher, class teacher, parent who won their appeal (who is coming with me to appeal). So that side is covered.

So am really after responses to their arguments, which are as listed above.

Thanks
Gilly

Ok am home now so can answer some of the points above in more detail

Hi Admission, thanks for your reply.
The authority did NOT get the paperwork to me with 7 working days notice (I believe it is working days not simply days). It arrived here on monday 14th, the appeal is monday 21st. That is less than 7 working days.
There is no post mark on the envelope but the 'franking' stamp says post by 14th June. I have kept the envelope.
My question really is how much emphasis should I give to this fact, or is it irrelevant ultimately?

I have been told there are 13 appeals taking place. So you're guestimate was a good one.
My friend is coming with me, she said that when they went to her ds's appeal they were the only parents there. She won her appeal (and her ds is the extra child in Yr 9 of the figures given).

I believe the PAN number of 216 is based on 8 classes of 27 children. The school is smaller than most and does have a lower PAN than most of the schools in our area. But will definitely raise the points you mention on this. Thanks!

Hi janeyjampot

Congratulations on winning your appeal! And thanks for your comments on my OP.

I have several reasons for choosing this school and have listed them out in detail on the appeal forms. I also have a letter from ds's head teacher which also refers to some of the points I raised.

Without going into the details on it here I think I have that part of the appeal pretty much covered and can show why my ds should be given a place there.

Although most weren't relevant it was very helpful to see the bullet points you listed to get some idea of the reasons appeals are successful.

The school concerned has a specialism in maths & IT, which is one of the reasons we chose it. So I shall be sure to put lots of emphasis on why I believe this is particularly beneficial when I get to put ds's case forward.

Thanks for your thoughts and comments
Gilly

The best you will get from the lateness of the paperwork is an adjournment of the appeal to a later date. They certainly won't admit your child on the basis of late paperwork. And adjourning to a later date could work against you if there are some successful appeals next week.

I agree with Admission that this is a fairly routine case from the school and doesn't really prove that they can't take any more. The problem is that it sounds like there are a lot of appeals. Given the way the panel make decisions when there are a lot of appeals, that means you need to make sure you have a really good case as to why this is the right school for your child.

Ok so basically mention that the paperwork was late but get on and deal with it. Will go with that then.

I forgot to mention above that the school's induction day is the day after the appeal. I did ask if it would be possible for my ds to attend it as he would miss out otherwise and obviously we are hoping to win his appeal, but also if we don't win that I do intend to move him when a place does become available. I have stated this in my appeal and have said it each time I have spoken to the school (as it is true).

Was initially told that it wasn't possible, and on further pressing was told that if we did win appeal they would make alternative arrangements for an induction day for him. Ok so that sounded fair enough.

However I received a letter this week saying that the headteacher had reconsidered and would now like to invite ds to the induction day and I could attend the parents bit that evening too if I wanted. It did also say if we didn't then they would arrange an alternative date should our appeal be successful.

I have taken this as a very positive sign. Why would the headteacher have reconsidered if there was little chance of success at the appeal? I mean it would be a waste of time for all concerned if they didn't think we had much chance of winning wouldn't it? And if they're thinking we may win, then really teh school can't be too full to take him now can it...

Needless to say, after discussion with ds, I phoned to accept the invitation to induction day for ds and also the parents only info evening for me.

Trying not to get get my hopes up too much at this stage, but it does sound optimistic doesn't it?

Plus I was thinking I can use it at the appeal saying, if the school's too full to take more children why would we they have reconsidered and invited us ds to induction day. They must think we have a chance of winning to do so, which kind of negates the points given about it being too full etc.

Also want to mention that, assuming all the new yr7's come to induction they have potentially another 216 children in school who will be offered in-house catering (was told to send in £2.50 if he wanted school meal), so I can't see how the lunchtime arrangements are so over stretched if they can accomodate another potential 216 (plus my ds), even if some are away revising for exams currently.

I agree with PixieOnaLeaf about the induction day. If you bring this up it may sound to the panel like clutching at straws.

The fact they can cope with additional children on a one off basis when Y11 and Y13 are not in school doesn't mean they can cope with more on a regular basis. However, as Admission has already said, the catering arguments in the LA's case are a complete non-starter anyway. The points you've already made in your initial post are enough. If they really are in the situation where students are late to afternoon classes because of congestion in the catering facilities they need to sort out their management - either get the children through lunch more efficiently or extend lunchtime.

To clarify the process a little, the panel have to first of all decide if the school can accept all the children appealing. If there are a significant number of appeals the answer is likely to be no.

The next step is for the panel to look at each case in turn and decide whether the prejudice to the child through not being admitted outweighs the prejudice to the school through admitting them. Those are the potentially successful appeals.

Finally, the panel has to consider if the school can handle all the children identified in the second step. If not, they then have to compare the cases with each other to determine which children should be admitted.

Weakening the LA's case obviously helps with the second and third steps but you also need to have a really good case for your child to be admitted.

Pixie in my case for this appeal the info had to be sent to the school, it's a foundation school and they deal with their own appeals.

Although I sent it to the admissions officer at the school I think the head teacher could easily have seem or asked to see the paperwork.

PixieOnaLeaf - If the school is its own admission authority (foundation schools, faith schools, academies, etc.) they have to sort out their own appeals and the head teacher would be able to see the paperwork if he/she wanted. For LA schools it is up to the LA how much they involve the school. Some involve them more than others.

As this is a foundation school I should have been talking about the school's case rather than the LA's case.

In terms of deciding the outcome of the appeal the head does not have any say. The decision is entirely down to the appeal panel who must be independent from the school and the LA.

PixieOnaLeaf,
If the school is a foundation school then the school have to present the case not to admit. This will be either the head teacher or more likely a deputy head teacher who has responsibility for admissions. If I am honest they tend to much poorer at presenting the case than someone from the LA - mainly because they get less practice.

There is a partial arguement that the head by allowing you to go to the induction day etc is giving you an expectation that you will be offered a place. Whilst there is case law about heads who did offer places, you are a long way from that scenario.

I might be tempted to bring it up at the appeal on the basis that the school are allowing pupils who have gone to appeal to go to the induction which has given an impression that the school may be prepared to accept more pupils than the PAN, but not push it.

I would go for the jugular in part 1 on the basis that the school must have rooms capable of holding 30 pupils so the PAN of 216 (8 times 27) should really be 240 (8 times 30). This would be correct for a "real" net capacity of 240 - 10% off is 24 which = 216. And you don't want to admit 24 only 13

Pixie - Because there are several appeals they do the first part as a group event, that's the part the headteacher is coming too, and then we put our individual cases afterwards one at a time. SO we all nee dto be there at 9.30 on monday, but in addition we all have an individual alloted time either on monday or tuesday.

I would imagine the same admissions authority representative will be at all 13 individual appeals, but I doubt the person will be the head, who is only named at being there for the 9.30 monday bit.

I would imagine you've all been "invited" (allowed?) to attend the induction day, as it would clearly be in the school's interests not to have to do it twice in the case of any appeals being successful. I wouldn't get your hopes up that it means you're in with a better chance - against the other 12 families. But the downside is that has raised your hopes, particularly your DS's, and it will seem even harsher if the appeal fails.
Good luck with it all, anyway.

The school is a foundation school and therefore has to present its own case. It is absolutely necessary that someone from the school is present for stage 2 of each appealants case. I suppose there is nothing to stop that being someone else other than the head but it would be quite unusual if the head was there for stage 1.

Well it definitely says head teacher on my info and names him:

Agenda
Introduction
School's case (Presented by Mr xyz - Headteacher)
Questions by the Panel
Questions from Appellants
School Summary
INDIVIDUAL HEARINGS
Appellant's case
Questions to Appelant/Representative from Panel & Admissions Authority Representative
Appellant's Summary
All parties withdraw
Panel deliberates after hearing all cases.
Clerk writes to all parties informing them of Panel's decision.

So it's definitely the headteacher in the first part.
I just checked the same info with my friend who won her ds's appeal and on their agenda it did not say headteacher but simply representative. So it seems that's a change from 2006.

I wonder why the headteacher is choosing to do it himself then, especially if as you say that is unusual...

That is definitely what Admission meant. If the head is presenting the case in stage one it would normally also be the head questioning you in stage two. However, that isn't compulsory so if the school want to put someone else in for stage two...

Yes, it is possible that your work will result in someone else getting a place. I'm afraid that's just a risk you have to take. I hope it works out for you.

Good luck.