Applying to grammar schools from overseas as British citizen

[BigHedgehog]

Hi all, this might be an odd question, but I’m trying to make some future life choices and wondered if anyone here has applied to a grammar school from overseas?

Both my daughter and I are British citizens, and we own a flat in England which is rented out. We currently live abroad because of my job contract. As I’m trying to make some longer-term plans, I’m thinking about returning to the UK for my daughter’s secondary education and considering a grammar school for her (2028 entry). I think she has a reasonable chance of getting a place, but if she doesn’t get it, it might make more sense for us to stay where we are for another few years while my current contract is still running. The in-year admissions to grammar schools are quite rare to my knowledge (?)

I’ve been reading a bit about it, and it seems that we may need to provide proof of address by the application deadline, and the documents should show that we reside at the address rather than own the flat. The tricky bit is that we don't want to move until we know whether she’s got a place, but I’m not sure whether she can even sit the exams without having proof of address. We don’t have any relatives in the UK, and I definitely don’t want to do anything that would go against the rules. I’ll obviously contact the school’s admissions team, but I thought I’d ask here first in case anyone has been in a similar situation. I’d be really grateful to hear how you approached it!

I mean what could possibly be the issue with trying to access the very best taxpayer-funded education you can get, having not contributed to that system or that country’s economy yourself?

That's a bit of a leap..

No idea of the OPs situation but it's entirely possible they have contributed in the past and it's also possible to become UK non resident but still be liable UK tax on income and in some circumstances even UK NI...

Talk to the school is the only answer. But locally you wouldn’t have a chance. Dd passed the eleven plus but then didn’t get in on distance and we’re ten miles away in a rural location where normally kids from the village got in. But as the town has got bigger now the “catchment “ area has got smaller. They allocate places on distance not score.

Oth schools allocate on highest scores but I’d have thought they still have a catchment area.

Maybe if you explain the circumstances they may allow it as long as you’re back in the flat by x date?

There's several areas in the UK where the grammars have no catchment at all and so you can apply from anywhere. We live in one of those and grammar school tourism is rife here. It's quite normal for people to apply from overseas or the other side of the country and move. (London being common). It's led to super selective grammars and only 40% of kids are within a 20 mile radius of the school. The locals (IE born and bred) view incomers with resignation. However this has led to the local non grammar schools becoming much better overall because although they get alot less funding then the grammars they still get the 'intelligent' kids and overall are more rounded.
We are in Gloucestershire.

In some ateas you need to be resident at the address fir a period ahead of applying to the grammar school. Also registering for tests may have an earlier deadline with tests taken in September. Is the flat in the catchment of a particular school or is the one you hope for superselective or has designated “out of catchment” places? It may not be enough to pass the exam to get a place. Is the current school curriculum likely to prepare her enough?

There are a few state grammars with boarding, with lots of pupils from British parents living overseas. https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/uk-schools/advice/state-boarding-schools

Depends on the school. My son's just started at the Blue Coat in Liverpool, which has no catchment requirements whatsoever. You could apply from Timbuktu, and as long as you turned up on the first day in September, you'd be fine. But I think that's quite rare. It's also much harder to get a place at the Blue Coat than it is to, say, get a place in a Wirral grammar, where catchments apply.
You can sit the exams from anywhere though - there was a legal precedent a few years back. The issue is being offered a place, and for that you'd need to check individual/local requirements.

You need a super selective. They take the top X scores and don’t care where you live.

Is you dd of super selective ability rather than just grammar school ability?

(Although if you think she might be then she will definitely be grammar school ability so it might be easier to just move to a grammar school area.)

I think you need to speak to admissions. Don't say you'd stay where you are without a space but say you're going to move back see what they say about residence.

In my area you'd need tuition. We did lots of mocks over the summer. I think she'd be at a disadvantage if you didn't tutor and do exam prep. It's not about how intelligent you are. It's about understanding the format of the questions and answering in the time.

You will need to read the admissions criteria for the schools you like. There is no one rule across the country.
Where I live they have become strict on years lived in the area and thoroughly check

Tiffin is the ultimate super selective and that’s not true with them - they consider applicants from within the 10km ‘priority area’ before looking at anyone outside that area (and good luck if you’re outside it)

Some Grammar schools take from catchment first then the top so many scorers from outside catchment. It varies from school to school so it's worth checking their admissions policy.

I agree with this. I wouldn't go into an exam unprepared. My daughter's both went to grammar (one did leave because they hated it) and had tuition. We didn't do mocks but it's a good idea!

My daughters friend sat the exam with no tuition and was devastated when she didn't pass, as were her parents, their daughter is very intelligent but she just wasn't prepared.

Ha! Yes. I’m in the same area & do some freelance work in one of the Gloucester grammars. Most of my students there get the bus from a couple of hours away, then once all the younger siblings have got a place, they move to Gloucester. The super selective in Cheltenham has pupils from London, Nottingham and all over the country. Sometimes one parent will move into a Monday to Friday air bnb with the child & go home at weekends. Crazy!

Meanwhile, my own son walks half a mile up the road to the excellent local comp.

Some super selectives allow you to move but the window is tight. I only know about Latymer where the exam is at the start of September, results at the start of October and you need to move into the, admittedly rather large, catchment area by the start of January.

I would caution that these schools are ridiculously competitive with something like 3,000 kids trying for 190 places.

But you still have to apply from an address in the uk (and need to be able to prove your address). You have to apply via the local authority / council you live in. That’s the process across England, so I don’t see how you can apply from an address outside the UK.

https://liverpool.gov.uk/schools-and-learning/school-admissions/how-to-apply/

Speaking from recent experience and also moving back from overseas, she would have needed tutoring two years ago to pass the exam and guarantee a place. It's ridiculously competitive, overcrowded and unfair on the children.

There is no grammar school wonderful education fantasy any more so save your efforts for sixth form and uni.

I appreciate your concern, but let me clarify, although it’s not really related to the original question. We have been living abroad for two years now because of a job offer I got. Before that, both my husband and I lived and worked in England for many years. From abroad, we continue submitting tax returns on our rented property and managing all the related expenses.

Both my husband and I received our primary, secondary and university education in other countries, without being a burden on UK taxpayers, and started working in the UK from day one.

As we are now discussing the possibility of returning as a family (which would again involve working and contributing to the country’s economy), I don’t quite see the "issue" with me looking into schools for my daughter, who was born in the UK and considers it her home, but I am open for a discussion.

Each school is different. I don’t have any personal experience so can’t confirm it, but I’ve heard Queen Elizabeth Barnet (frequently the top performing school in the country) has no residence requirement of any kind, and that they’ve had pupils from India successfully apply and move to the UK to take up the place.

Happy to be corrected if that’s an internet rumour though!

Haha, yes, at the welcome meeting in July, the Head Teacher said people had come from California and Thailand to sit the test! So it can be done, OP, but probably only with superselectives with no catchment.

I hope all went well for your son yesterday @CheerfulMuddler. Slight wobble in our house last night, but went in with a smile this morning.

Thank you for sharing your experience. We only look at the schools which use distance as a tiebreaker, and do not have catchment area as such, therefore any address can be used in an application. And yes, I think I would need to talk to the school. Was just wondering if anyone had a similar experience with applying from overseas

It's a pity to read about the tensions you mention... However, I wonder if it is a school policy which allows people to apply without a proof of "actual residency" or if these families move months in advance to be able to show they actually live there.

Hi, thank you for your response. The flat doesn't have any grammar schools nearby, and we are only considering the ones which don't have a catchment area, so any address will work. The question is if it is possible to apply without moving to the country yet, until the exam results arrive.
I think she has quite high chances, yes.

Thank you, this is helpful to know. As I see the issue, it is not with the catchment area (we consider schools without it), but rather with the actual paper "proof of address", such as utility bills under our names, which we don't have, as we are abroad and it would be pretty challenging to move before getting the entrance exam results. I guess the only way to do it correctly is to ask the school...

You need to look at schools where neither distance nor catchment are in the criteria - so admission is by score alone. Most schools in England don’t have formal catchment areas, but select by distance which effectively becomes the catchment for that intake. If your child achieved the required score, in most cases they would then be ranked by distance - and you’d be last. Moving back to the UK once allocations had been done would bump you up the list but no guarantee that you’d get a place.

Some (most?) schools let you know the outcome of the test a week or so before the deadline - so were you planning to move back somewhere close to the school that week?

As others have said, some (not all) of the so called super selective only admit by score, but most successful kids have years of tutoring so don’t underestimate the requirements.