Applying to grammar schools from overseas as British citizen

[BigHedgehog]

Hi all, this might be an odd question, but I’m trying to make some future life choices and wondered if anyone here has applied to a grammar school from overseas?

Both my daughter and I are British citizens, and we own a flat in England which is rented out. We currently live abroad because of my job contract. As I’m trying to make some longer-term plans, I’m thinking about returning to the UK for my daughter’s secondary education and considering a grammar school for her (2028 entry). I think she has a reasonable chance of getting a place, but if she doesn’t get it, it might make more sense for us to stay where we are for another few years while my current contract is still running. The in-year admissions to grammar schools are quite rare to my knowledge (?)

I’ve been reading a bit about it, and it seems that we may need to provide proof of address by the application deadline, and the documents should show that we reside at the address rather than own the flat. The tricky bit is that we don't want to move until we know whether she’s got a place, but I’m not sure whether she can even sit the exams without having proof of address. We don’t have any relatives in the UK, and I definitely don’t want to do anything that would go against the rules. I’ll obviously contact the school’s admissions team, but I thought I’d ask here first in case anyone has been in a similar situation. I’d be really grateful to hear how you approached it!

Yes, we did quite a few mock tests on English, math, reasoning etc, and she does them very well. With a year of preparation, I think she will have good chances. She is also very into music, playing guitar and piano (currently Grades 3/4 Trinity), enjoys performing at concerts and competitions, so I am thinking of trying the Music Aptitude test route at the schools which allow it.
The issue is with the lack of an actual proof of residency and a possibility to move back to the UK only when the exam results are available...

As above, with competition so high now VAT is stopping private education options they will likely be working on distance as well as picking the highest scoring.

Thank you, this is exactly my question and concern :)
I am not worried about the catchment area as the schools I am looking at do not have it as a formal requirement. And of course, I am also happy to move closer to school if the place has been granted. The issue is with the current address in the UK which we don't have (apart from the flat we own, but it is rented out). That's why I posted the question to see if anyone had a similar experience.

That is an interesting example, thank you for sharing. I guess I have to contact every school we are interested at separately to see if they would allow it, but as the application process goes through local councils, I think there is still some form of standardization in the application process....

Thank you so much for sharing. Was it also Blue Coat where the Head Teacher mentioned California and Thailand? I am happy to try the superselectives but would prefer to move only when the results are out...

This also applies to places in West Kent like Tonbridge.

I wouldn't fixate on a Grammar place as the deciding factor as to whether to move back or not.

There are many many excellent comprehensives where children of all abilities (including Grammar ability) thrive and get good results.

Grammar school results largely reflect the cohort, and research shows that overall in counties such as Kent that have a full grammar system the results are not better than comparable counties with comprehensives.

If on balance you want to move back it sounds as if you have the flexibility to choose an area with good secondary schools.

It's a lot of pressure on your Dd to talk about moving back IF she passes an exam.

The 'no catchment' grammars are known as 'super selective' and places are offered to the top performers in the 11+ - highly highly competitive and usually tutoring is intense. In a full grammar area there are places for those who pass the 11+ - it's a pass or fail system not a competition based on top scores. (Though the level may be set to enable about 25% of students to pass)

I would focus on whether you want to move back or not and then find the right school within location.

A heads up on music places.
Guitar and piano do not generally excite music departments as they are not orchestral instruments and they will have hundreds of piano players applying (and violin).
My DD was offered a number of music scholarships at 11+ and was G7 level in first study and G4/5 level in two others.
I would say most music scholars are G5+

This. You are having a laugh.
Leave the grammar school places for the local children.

Yes, that was Blue Coat. No catchment, so the only issue (if there is one) would be with the actual application through the council. You can't be the first family applying for a school from abroad, though, so there must be a process.

Thank you for the heads up. Yes, I think, she will reach G5 during this year, and so far, she has been pretty "musical" and interested in performing and participating in competitions. I won't force her to try another instrument just for the sake of getting into the school of course :) but if she chooses to explore something else during secondary school years, sure.

Also check the conditions for scholarships. Some schools have draconian rules and you are basically the department's slave!
Others are considerably nicer.

This is the information on the Wallington Girls website about applying from abroad. (Image attached in case it takes a while to be approved). You would probably need to ask if they would accept your UK address with proof of returning to the UK even if you didn't plan to return to that flat. The sticking point might be proof you are returning, as you are undecided.

Not what you asked - if you are moving back to UK for education purposes, have you considered a private school?

That link says you can only apply 'online' for a place if you live in the UK. It doesn't say you can only apply from a UK address. In fact, UK schools are legally required to consider all applications from overseas alongside UK applications. This page details the law. www.gov.uk/guidance/schools-admissions-applications-from-overseas-children

"A school admission authority cannot refuse to admit a child until the school to which the parents have applied is full – for example, it has reached its published admission number. Parents who are moving or returning to England or the UK and who apply for a place in England must therefore have their applications for state-funded schools considered. Admission authorities cannot, for example:

• require the applicant has a permanent home address either in the UK or overseas before processing an application
• require the submission of immigration documentation proving the applicant’s right to reside in the UK before processing an application

Where a place is refused, admission authorities must offer an appeal to an independent appeal panel. As is the case with admission authorities more generally, nothing in legislation prevents a local authority from co-ordinating an application from a family living in another country or posted overseas but moving or returning to England or the UK so that the child will be living in the area when they start school. If a local authority refuses to co-ordinate an application for a school place from parents currently living in another country but moving or returning to England, an admission authority for the school would have significant difficulty in being able to lawfully apply its admission arrangements."

You might be asked to provide proof that you plan to return to the UK - this can include a tenancy agreement or a letter from your employee with your transfer date. But it's probably worth contacting the local authority directly as this can vary from place to place.
DS seemed happy, @duckydoo234, although he's not wild about the blazer. He was exhausted though, and we don't even live that far away. Starting a new school is a lot.

Few state grammar schools would be interested in musical ability or offer any co curricular ”scholarship” for priority entry over academic assessment. That is more the remit of independent schools(some of which are confusingly entitled grammars) who also interview and have discretion in choice of pupils.

Sure, when they open a decent secondary school (not necessarily grammar) with the catchment area which includes our flat, I will be the first one in line to apply for a place as a "local" child. Until then, unfortunately, I have to develop complicated plans involving relocations, change of jobs, considerations on selling the current flat and buying a new one, writing here in the forums to explore options and reading irrelevant messages such as yours.

Is moving back to England dependent on either being able to live in or sell the flat? As that will also complicate matters.

I think you’d be better off taking grammar schools out the equation, decide whether or not you’re moving back and if so where you could move to, and plan accordingly.

It’s a lot of pressure on DD to effectively have her family’s future dependent on the outcome of a test. Even if you don’t quite explain it to her like that she will figure something is up when she comes back to England to sit the 11+.

Some areas without grammar schools have excellent comprehensive schools if you’re open to moving.

In the long term, we plan to move back to the UK, and of course, in due course, we will consider other secondary school options as well. The grammar school seems like a very good fit for her, with the issue that the application dates are quite tight and the requirement to provide proof of address before the results are released.

And no worries - no one is putting her under pressure or expecting her to carry the responsibility for the future of the family. Quite the opposite, I see it would be more difficult to make a family decision to move first, then try to secure a place at a good school (wherever grammar or not) and fail, or change several school until the place becomes available, placing her happiness at risk.

There are several schools who run a Music Aptitude test together with a sports one. Not every, but several.

Thank you so much, this is actually incredibly helpful! I will deep-dive a bit more here and will see if I should write to the selected schools. Thank you again.

Thank you, this is helpful! A proof of returning to the UK is actually better than not to have any solution at all :)

If Liverpool is somewhere you're interested in, Liverpool College, King David, St Edwards and Belvedere Academy are all state schools with musical aptitude places. Liverpool College and Belvedere Academy use a lottery system to give their other places, and don't take distance into account.
If you happen to be religious/church goers, a lot of the local schools give places based on religious faith before they even consider distance.
So there would be lots of comprehensive options if she didn't get into the Blue Coat.
It's a right pain if you actually live here and don't go to church, but very convenient if you don't!

Bucks does have residence requirement and you must produce evidence. Cheating on where you live is rife! Plus we have a 100.% grammar system and, contrary to the assertion made by @TheOnlyWayIsIlford Bucks is a very high achieving LA. Most similar LAs are in or around London and house prices are high.

Hi, any cheating is definitely out of question for me. I was asking about the legal ways of applying from overseas and if anyone had experience with this. Unfortunately, apart from a few useful links (grateful to these people!), I have been guided on multiple other topics - including paying taxes.
The flat we own is in London, and I have been looking for the schools around it for practical reasons (without catchment area requirements).