Applying to grammar schools from overseas as British citizen

[BigHedgehog]

Hi all, this might be an odd question, but I’m trying to make some future life choices and wondered if anyone here has applied to a grammar school from overseas?

Both my daughter and I are British citizens, and we own a flat in England which is rented out. We currently live abroad because of my job contract. As I’m trying to make some longer-term plans, I’m thinking about returning to the UK for my daughter’s secondary education and considering a grammar school for her (2028 entry). I think she has a reasonable chance of getting a place, but if she doesn’t get it, it might make more sense for us to stay where we are for another few years while my current contract is still running. The in-year admissions to grammar schools are quite rare to my knowledge (?)

I’ve been reading a bit about it, and it seems that we may need to provide proof of address by the application deadline, and the documents should show that we reside at the address rather than own the flat. The tricky bit is that we don't want to move until we know whether she’s got a place, but I’m not sure whether she can even sit the exams without having proof of address. We don’t have any relatives in the UK, and I definitely don’t want to do anything that would go against the rules. I’ll obviously contact the school’s admissions team, but I thought I’d ask here first in case anyone has been in a similar situation. I’d be really grateful to hear how you approached it!

I am in a similar position @BigHedgehog. We are currently abroad, returning to the UK next year when my DC will start secondary school. We contacted the Local Authority where we are coming back to (a grammar school area, where some but not all grammars look at catchment) and explained our situation. They replied comprehensively and clearly stating it wasn’t a problem to apply from abroad and explaining how. We are flying back next week to take the test. Either way, we are moving to the area, but it just means we have the option of the grammar if they pass.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, really useful! Did you have to provide any proof of you moving back to the UK before start of the school year at the application stage? Good luck with the exam!

No, although I wonder if some might be required in March when finalising school
places? The next step for us after the test is waiting for results (mid October) then contacting the LA again to complete the CAF and choose a school before the deadline closes (end of Oct). If my DC have passed the test for a non catchment grammar that’s what we will choose. If not we will go to the very bottom (because of how far we are ) of the choice for a comp!

I was thinking about this overnight, and what I was going to say was similar to what @notanothernvr has explained.

I think you really just need to talk to the LA where you live and check their rules for overseas applications, rather than individual schools. I doubt you will need any proof to apply to sit the test, but they could ask you for some with/after your application. If your LA agrees to process your application, your DDs name will be sent to the relevant local authorities for the schools you have listed on your CAF and places allocated as per their admissions criteria.

In summary, the schools will let you sit the test and let your LA worry about your eligibility for applying. I doubt you will get much response from the schools themselves, other than to direct you to the LA.

Just a note of caution - my experience is with the Sutton grammars. You find out in October if you have passed, but won't know your score, so won't know until March if you have passed high enough for a place. If you can identify schools that provide your mark or another indication of how highly your DD has ranked, that will make it easier to predict the likelihood of a place.

Additional information is normally required with the CAF (some schools require a second form to be submitted such as evidence of regular attendance at a specific denomination or Church for faith places) and may be checked again before allocation day. Checking address against council tax data is a common one.

That Bucks is a high achieving area is not contrary to my assertion - it just means Bucks is a high achieving area.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/aug/no-evidence-grammar-school-systems-are-best-brightest

And from a few years earlier

https://epi.org.uk/publications-and-research/grammar-schools-8-conclusions-data/

(3. “We also found that pupils who attend grammar schools do no better than similar pupils in high performing comprehensives”)

And many more…

OP, moving back from abroad is challenging and complicated.

I think one problem is that whilst you can tell your LA in London that you are moving back to your flat , if you apply to Liverpool / Bucks etc you don’t have a LA. So would need to sit the test at a school that gives score results or pass level in advance and then move into that LA (or close by) before the application date. Or if no catchment criteria at all, into an LA somewhere in the country.

I hope you find a way to make the move you plan.

@BigHedgehog Owning a home isn’t enough for Bucks. It’s living in it for a qualifying time and paying the bills. People use second home addresses in Bucks to apply for schools as our schools are very sought after. That’s why bills with dates must prove residence. Anyway, if you are not looking for Bucks it won’t matter but I can tell you Bucks is hot on residence snd ownership is proof of nothing other then rich parents trying to circumvent the system. Bucks investigates many cases of dishonesty every year.

You’ve said you’re looking at schools without catchment areas a few times now. Schools that don’t have formal catchment areas still rank on distance - that distance effectively becomes the catchment area. I’m not sure what the point of avoiding formal catchment is given that an address abroad is always going to be ranked last.

@titchyDo any purely rank on mark attained? I’ve no idea as it’s not the system here.

Haven’t got a clue - mine went to the local comp!

OP would be better off starting a new thread and asking that question though.

@titchy You did say they all ranked on distance but grammars may use that as a second criteria after pass mark. They are all different I think.

Thank you, your experience is reassuring! and again - good luck with the exams, the plans and the move! :)

Thank you, yes, agree on talking to the LA. Just wanted to see if anyone had a similar experience and a few posts here were helpful. Fingers crossed :)

Yes, some do. Super selectives like QE, Wilson’s, St Olaves etc. However, I think you need to be resident in the Uk at a qualifying date (but you’ll need to check).

@titchy yes some grammars give places purely on marks attained in the eleven plus eg. Gloucestershire, as mentioned above. Hence having children commuting for hours a day from eg. Swindon to gloucester to go to school. For some grammar schools distance from school is simply not a criteria. Only the grade achieved.

One other option is to look at comprehensives with music aptitude places given you are London based.
This takes you out of the distance criteria for entry.
Camden School for Girls
St Marylebone's
Kingsdale Foundation School
Haberdashers' Hatcham College
West London Free
And lots of others.

If she's good at languages, then there's always Grey Coat in Westminster.

I went to a super-selective grammar.
DD went to a London comprehensive on a music place - we don't live in London.
Her education and the resources and opportunities and sheer number of subjects and extras was vastly superior to mine.
If I look at her school's results and my alma mater... let's just say the former is getting 3 times as many Oxbridge places and the high achievers are doing better at GCSE too.
Grammars aren't always the best school, and London has many of the best comps in the country.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow London is the highest achieving area in the uk quite often and the push for state pupils at Oxbridge has changed the landscape. However not all comps are the same! It’s still difficult to get into a great comp from abroad with no residence evidence here.

Agree, but worth looking into.

If OP had said their UK residence was in the middle of Dartmoor, rather fewer options than if you're in London.

And yep, plenty of not great comps in London too.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow Well maybe but the schools might be struggling for numbers as they can in London!

She’s a British citizen as is her child. She is currently working overseas. She rents a flat out in the UK and presumably pays tax on the rental. Can you actually answer the question?

OP is a British citizen as is her child. She is currently working abroad.
She has obviously lived here before.
She owns a flat and presumably pays tax on the rental income.
She would move back and continue to pay tax.

@dreamingofgoodhair She is all of those things but she’s not resident here! It matters. School admissions have rules and are legally governed. The Op cannot leapfrog someone else who is resident and meets the criteria.

You could say that about anyone moving to the area. Eg someone moves from London to Hertfordshire and needs to get a child in to
a school. The fact she’s overseas is irrelevant.

Not entirely irrelevant.

Yr 7 applications are done through the LA where you live. You submit your preferences to your LA, they gather the offers from whichever schools make them no matter how far away that school is.

An applicant from overseas has no LA.

@titchy So-called super-selectives admit on test score (highest scores get in) with no reference to distance. And have no catchment.

These are the schools the OP seems to be looking for.