Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

[Breeze67]

As a parent of a Year 5 DD, I’m struggling to justify the premium of a private day school. My primary concern is the disruption and mixed academic abilities in comprehensive state schools, which is why a selective school—be it a grammar or an independent one—seems like a solid solution. There is so much praise for independent schools, but when you look at the time factor, it gets complicated: When you look at how little time kids are actually at school—only covering half the year (private schools have much longer holidays) and only 8 out of 24 hours in a school day—it is clear that the heavy lifting, the real character building, and extra learning still happen at home. If we parents are doing the bulk of the work, what are we actually paying the big fees for?
Despite the fancy surface, much of the day-to-day experience between a grammar and an indie is not significantly different. Whether it’s museum trips, sports days, or classroom activities, the core experience cannot be vastly different. Is a class of 20-plus kids in a private day school really that much better than 30 in a top grammar? Of course, a difference exists, but likely impacts less than 1/3 of the school time. So, if we look at the maths, it’s 1/3 (the advantage) of 1/3 (the school day duration) of 1/2 (the school year), which is only about 1/18 of the year's time! Are we paying a figure roughly equivalent to the UK average salary for what essentially amounts to a 1/18 difference in yearly education? I am shocked by the number.
This leads me to wonder: is boarding the only true exception? Personally, I will not do it because I just enjoy my kid's company every day. But logically, only full boarding offers a genuine holistic education. It is a 24/7 immersion into an academic and social community that a day school, by design, simply cannot touch.
So, if day schools aren't significantly better than grammars, and I’m unwilling to consider boarding, am I left with a compromise? Are we paying for a superior education, or just a different peer group?

I focused on the 99th percentile because it is a level where more data is often available. It is also convenient because I happen to believe that the girls' average ability is probably (a bit) below this, whereas their families' average SES is probably above this.

Regarding family SES, my observations about SPGS include:

• most of the girls live in London, which has above average housing costs
• most of the girls went to private primaries, where bursaries are rarely available and which families which are marginal on finances often decide against
• most of the girls have siblings so their families can't focus on just one child's expenses
• at almost £39k/year in the lower school, it might be the most expensive mainstream day school in the UK (excluding special needs focused schools and day students at boarding schools who get six day per week tuition)
• 10% of girls receive bursaries, so 90% pay full fees
• compared with some other top ranked schools I'm familiar with, the school has a higher proportion of parents working in finance, consulting and corporate law: fields where earning above £350k for mid-career professionals in their 40's is not unusual

I'm not suggesting that half the families are billionaires. I'm suggesting that at least half the families are on over £350k, which is around the 99th percentile in the UK for two parent households with children.

I think you're misunderstanding my point about music. First, music is merely an example of an extracurricular activity, there are lots of other ways in which children have achieved. Second, my observation is that a high fraction of SPGS girls were disciplined enough and willing to put in the time and effort to get to a fairly high level (not necessarily Grade 8 by the beginning of senior school). And from DD's primary, it certainly seemed like the girls who demonstrated discipline and hard work through some sort of extracurricular achievement were more likely to get places at SPGS.

At the end of it, there is no way for me to prove, or for you to disprove, my beliefs. The data simply does not exist. But my conclusions are informed by my observations of DD, her classmates, and their families.

Out of interest, was it your DC's first instrument @Ubertomusic ? Because a first instrument will always take more tuition. I think the point on music standards in state v private is that in a state school (even a grammar) you don't have same volumes of children who have had (or even had access to) the tuition needed to reach Grade 8 so the overall standard in state can never be as high. Of course you can get middle class kids who reach Grade 8 by age 11/12 but they're a rarity in the state sector. The "middle classes" is such a wide umbrella that it definitely includes people for whom £100 a month may be affordable but only for one child or one instrument (two children, two instruments = £400 and that is a LOT of money for even the well paid middle classes when you add it to all the other extras that you may want to do).

She plays three instruments with two being joint first study for years so roughly the same costs on them.

I agree that MC is a very vague term, especially these days with CoL and taxes, hence it's quite difficult to discuss all this. I just gave an estimate of costs for a music package provision available on the market. I must add that it's a) London costs and b) there are regions in the UK where there is practically no music provision. So yes, the situation is much more nuanced than "pay this much, spend an hour a day and you'll get to X level".

At DD's music school there were lots of children from good state schools. They all could potentially reach grade 8 in middle school so it's not such a rarity at state schools like DAO, for example.

Music is not a very practical pursuit, it will never lead to high earnings so many people just don't want to spend on it. MC are usually concerned about money. The majority do it till 11+ to get scholarships, then immediately reduce spending and workload. So it's not just a question of affordability, it has to do with long term aims and priorities, too.

@user149799568 No one knows what two parent households earn at St Paul’s. However my point still is that these people are not under educated and have decent jobs. There are other schools available !

£100 per month…all you need is 1 hour per week with a good teacher

So £25 per hour for a good violin teacher then... 😓 Don’t forget your dd has talent (JD material) which is an exception. I witnessed a mediocre kid with very expensive violin tuition and very pushy parent to get grade 8.

From my observation 2/3 of the families in our current private primary can comfortably afford SPGS, while less than 1/5 have the academic ability to pass the SGPS entrance exam.
I think we both agree that SPGS students are among the most hardworking and self-disciplined within the group of all private secondary students, evidenced by extracurricular achievements. I just don’t want to speculate anything beyond that.

From my observation 2/3 of the families in our current private primary can comfortably afford SPGS, while less than 1/5 have the academic ability to pass the SGPS entrance exam.

Any conclusions you draw from that observation should take into account that the children in your DD's private primary were definitely selected by family income and may not have been as selected by academic ability, when compared to the general population.

I just don’t want to speculate anything beyond that.

Fair enough.

There are a lot of very able kids about with good work ethic who then go on to top unis and great jobs.
But there are only a very small number of truly exceptional children in their field (whether academics, music, sport whatever). Normally no school is able to challenge to truly gifted in their field. The well off parent with a gifted child knows this and will ship them off to X famous violinist for extra lessons anyway or get them a PhD tutor top of the field in maths/physics/compsci if they the parent weren’t already that way inclined.
There are lots of talented musical kids in state schools, often their parents are musicians themselves and have a great network of friends who will then teach their own kids. Same applies to the kids of academics in X Y Z field or the kids of computer scientists.
The constant wrangling around the middle classes for professional jobs - relax, your kids are already on course to get there because you were. It is when they change course from what you yourself provide at home that you need to do some digging or need a school of sorts.