Daughter being excluded from prom

[user1471497170]

My daughter is year 11 and sits GCSEs next month. She has struggled throughout the whole of secondary school with friendships, MH/school anxiety, behaviour and approximately a year ago almost got sent to pru. She has never settled in school. However she has made significant improvement, not on any behaviour plan, is revising hard and should pass GCSEs and do her chosen subjects in college.

She has autism, anxiety and some physical health issues that are likely linked. Getting her into school is a struggle as she feels unhappy there but we make the effort and her attendance is good.

Although much improved her behaviour score is not high enough to meet the 90% prom threshold (reminders, uniform points and gokng to toilet when not permitted). She was informally told this week the final decision is that she will be excluded from prom.

Now all the girls have their tickets and she is beside herself. They are all making plans and talking about dresses and she now feels unable to continue going to school due to feeling so distressed about this. She is worried how she will cope with the sense of exclusion having to keep hearing about prom in school and assemblies

She's now at home. I have written to the school and submitted 2 complaints over the last 2 months however I have not received a satisfactory response. There has been no communication to me from the school about their decision or how they will support those excluded. Please can someone advise how I can escalate this further and if possible externally.

In general.professiinals aren't stupid but I think it depends on levels of experience. Teachers know what is causing a problem in their class they don't know everything outside of that and in fairness there's no reason they would there's only so much one person can do.
The issue it they've no business organising a party then excluding some pupils unless actual.safety is at risk. No matter how much they feel like doing it.

@PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting this is mad.
for anything other than something that would cause them to be prosecuted for, and to be found guilty by a jury, in the wider world, outside of a school's doors and walls. In my view if a child does something like that they should, in fact, be prosecuted whether I school or not. Prom is staffed voluntarily and is in a public arena in many cases (local hotel or function room). Staff can’t be asked to supervise children who might engage in risky behaviour or damage, and neither can the hotels be expected to allow it. I worked in a school once where some students got drunk at prom (sixth form, so drinking was legal) then set off fire extinguishers and trashed the place. The school were banned from booking the place again and I never volunteered for another prom while I worked there.
Now, you may say OPs DD doesn’t sound like that but remember we don’t know what the ‘reminders’ were for - could well be behavioural - and people have said on the thread many times that going to the toilet at the wrong time is often the behaviour system code for ‘wanders out of class without permission and disappears for ages’. That would be a safeguarding issue in a public place.

@Warmlight1 listen to yourself “teachers have no business organising a party”. The utter bastards, organising a party for children, in their own time, often involving their own money. Bastards.
They can only organise a party if they do it the way I WANT! Teachers after teacher has been on here saying, wondering out of class is a safety issue, in a non school location it’s a massive safety issue. This child was considered for a PRU - how much of a safety issue do you want?
Then when there is a safety issue teachers are castigated for not taking enough care.
Run your own bloody prom, in your own house. Oh no can’t do that as teenage parties are notorious for going wrong.

' She's refusing to behave herself' OP stated She's not on a behaviour plan and is progressing well.
A professional teaching role is not about organising a social event and then deciding you can exclude some kids as a final ' gotcha' because it's voluntary and you are pissed off with them. That's a kind of burn out thing which heads have got a responsibility to have oversight of. Not create policies to enable.
I greatly appreciate all the extra work my kids school put into discos but they've never started disallowing pupils in that manner and I'd strongly object and rather they didn't do the disco.

I actually think if it's come to that the school is acknowledging it has let go of it's responsibilities and should have enough insight not to undertake it. If it's voluntary, and not doing it inclusively is how teachers have to be persuaded then they should acknowledge it's work that isn't funded and just not do it. That way there's more energy for classroom.
If individuals want the privilege of deciding who to invite- they can do that in their own time in their own homes with their own parties.

Exactly, @Warmlight1and that’s why good things stop. No prom, no parties, kids stuck in their rooms. We bemoan the lack of social interaction. Well done.

Also, if you think children have not been disallowed at your children’s school you are either very lucky in your catchment or you just don’t know about it.

It’s language like “pissed off” that shows what you think. Do you really think teachers made this rule because they are “pissed off”? They are concerned this child can’t be trusted. Do you think the teachers are high fiving each other in the staff room as a “gotcha”? You seem to really believe the teachers are sitting round having vindictive ‘who can we get’ meetings. You say teachers have the “privilege” of who to invite - no they follow the rules. Rules are in place to stop any emotional decisions- that’s what rules are for, that’s why we have rules. You seem to want everyone or no one. It’s going to be no one so we cancel the prom. Result!

As a member of primary school staff who gives up evenings and even weekends, doing it unpaid, for the year 6s end of year parties/prom etc, I’d be more than happy if the school would step back from it all and parents took it all on.

I don't think you understand what psychotic means

‘wilful ignorance coupled with the rules don’t apply to me entitlement cause the anxiety and MH issues’

Not the case, for mental health nor neurodiversity.

The damage to school toilets in primary is hard to believe and yet my colleagues and I witness it on a weekly basis. Toilet paper stuffed in sinks and taps left to run, jumpers and even a pair of shoes in urinals/toilets, toilet seats ripped off, even a couple of doors. Then of course there’s been bullying and fights with children walking out of class to meet with others. Or children using the toilets with others climbing up on the loo next door to look at them.

Accessing toilets is a huge issue, which unless you work in a school you wouldn’t quite believe. I certainly didn’t until I started working in a school.

Now you have selectively misquoted me - and no one is calling anyone bastards and the issue if the OP is believed would be senior leadership (I know how very dare I)
Who should be clear about why they are doing things. Is it a safety issue in the prom or is it a sanction?
The OP has said it's a sanction under a policy- for mainly historic transgressions - going to the toilet and uniform and other unspecified stuff. But there is no behaviour plan in place - so the current problems can't be as you are suggesting.
A child who is currently a danger to safety is a completely different conversation. You are free to disbelieve the OP. I'm saying in this case on what is presented I don't believe this is an appropriate sanction. Not that there should be no sanctions for anything.

Children wilfully leaving the classroom are a safety risk. They can't be trusted to follow the instructions of the adults.

Since when did year 11 prom become a thing?
It used to be For 6th formers who had worked hard and taken their A levels.

Year 11 are much less mature and less likely to behave; especially if they have essentially left the school in question. Though I have heard that it's now spreading to year 6 leavers parties.
I would vote for it proms only for 6th formers, in order to bring some sense to the situation.
It is perfectly normal for badly behaved kids to be excluded from school trips. Especially abroad! Teachers can't have kids wandering off in foreign countries, not turning up at the right time and place.

As For uniform. Air hostesses and pilots would be reprimanded if they didn't adhere to the dress code. Vets. Nurses. Vet nurses. Hospital staff. Some childcare settings. Some hairdressers. Kitchen staff. Hotel receptionist and cleaners. All have to look smart and wear uniform.
The college where I worked- all the hair and beauty students had to wear a smart tunic and black trousers. We had a beauty salon which was open to the public.
Still waiting to hear the career path that this child has chosen

Danger and safety are different. Danger is she going start a fight - probably not. Safety is she going to wander off - a strong possibility based on behaviour that has been sanctioned. Therefore due to her sanctioned behaviour a decision based on safety has been made. The issue is trust - do you trust this child to behave in a different, exciting, possibly emotional environment? On the balance of probabilities based on behaviour the answer is no. These decisions are not emotion based on pissed off or gotchas they are following safety protocols so staff don’t end up getting sanction or sacked because children end up in difficult situation.

@Dozer it is absolutely the case that lack of structure and kind but firm boundaries leads - in some cases - to MH issues. Many autistic and ADHD people want, like and need boundaries. I include myself in that.

I'm with you on that if it's within the teachers capacity that's fine and it's appropriate for them to do ending events- I really value the plays etc- but I don't require them to do disco's outside school much less use it as an opportunity to sanction some children. Also there should be extra pay or toil involved when It does occur. Life is frenetic enough around these times. It always seems to me a lot of effort and I'd rather they focussed on the in school.experience. Would happily let the discos go.

What makes you think she wanders off? OP reports she was going to the toilet
I think a lot of people just don't believe the OP.

The issue is teachers do do so much in their own time. However, some children are not getting the support they need in school time. I would much rather schools focussed on actually ensure SEN kids get an education that is right and fair than schools spent so much time in other things that the actual needs get pushed further down the list of jobs.

It's not an individual teachers fault but the education system isn't meeting the needs of the most vulnerable and hasn't for years

There's no dress code. It's a prom. Shes not going to get lost abroad whilst going to the toilet.

She wandered off to the toilet. That's an issue.

I don't believe the OP having heard many similar protests from parents over the years. "they were only....."

Agree.

I've worked in food factories all of my life. There is a strict dress code which leads to disciplinary if not adhered to. As you have to change in and out of clothing (which takes time) to get to the toilet, you're expected to plan to go in break times that you get.

I would imagine that some of those creating the damage are children with unmet needs

If we do not meet need early and effectively then situations will occur.

A child with unmet needs is more likely to be me frustrated and more likely to do disruptive things.

My SEN child didn't as they were scared so much in school that they fawned but in many ways I sometimes wished they would act out because fawning resulted in the school being able to totally ignore their responsibility to support and educate. Whereas usually the more it impacts the teacher / school the more likely it is that the child will get support.

Most kids want to do well. However, most kids don't want to be seen as stupid by their peers. Being seen as naughty is preferred to being seen as thick

If we get the support right then we will see less infractions

What is your evidence for your assertions about the causes and treatment of mental health and neurodiversity, then, @Thetreesaregreeninspring ?

Thank you psychopathic was what I meant. A bit psychopathic. That's the policy not the people. Though it's possible it could be the people. Or a person.

These kids get so much support in most cases and still act out and ruin the education for the rest. Take a girl I teach, she has 1:1 check-in 3 times a day, soft start, movement breaks, in class adjustments. Yet she's still on the phone loudly saying what a shit school we are, how no one gives a fuck etc. None of that is an unmet need, it's choice behaviour.

Problem is there is an explosion of kids needing support. When 1 in 5 kids are identified as having a special need, it's not "special" anymore in a way, but the norm.

Perhaps you're right that school isn't working for anyone but it doesn't seem like the requirements now are that much different to when I was younger.

If the answer is meeting needs better, why have those needs exploded?

@Dozer I haven’t got time to do all your research for you. As a starting point AI says this:

Psychological research consistently shows that authoritative parenting—often described as "firm but fair" or "warm and structured"—is the most effective style for promoting healthy child development.

Using this as base you can look at the multitude of tested, confirmed and retested psychological investigations and evidence.