Conflict with Y5 child over 11+ prep

[CherishL]

Has anyone had quarrels or arguments with their children during 11+ preparation?

My Year 5 son is academically bright and also very talented in music. We have been saving so that he can attend an independent school, as there are no grammar schools where we live, although there are some very good independent ones nearby.

However, I often feel that he is not as proactive as he should be, and I am becoming quite tired of constantly reminding him what to do. We even created a weekly schedule together showing when and what he should study, but he does not follow it. I also tried letting him plan his own study times, but he struggles to stick to that as well.

Today it reached the point where I ended up yelling at him and telling him not to do it anymore if he does not want to. It made me wonder whether perhaps he is not suited to a very competitive school environment, where many children seem highly driven and self-motivated.

Have any other parents experienced something similar? How did you manage it? Any advice or strategies that worked for you? And did your child still end up getting a place at the school they were hoping for?

How much time are you wanting him to spend on it and how much school homework is he getting?

What are your local schools like? How do the 'previous high attainers' get on?

No, because I wouldn’t send a child who isn’t motivated to study, to a selective independent school. Sounds like a recipe for conflict for years

He used to attend a private school and received weekly English and Maths homework. He has not had much school homework since he moved to the state school in Year 4 - only once in a half term.

He has 2 hours of French school every Saturday to continue what he learned in the private school. From Year 5, he started 2 hours of online English tuition and continued 1 hour of Piano lesson every week . I asked him to complete homework from these extra tuition during the week if possible, and work on 11+ practice during the weekend. At the moment, he struggles to keep it up.

So 5 hours of tuition in addition to school, plus homework and 11+ practice on top of that?
I'm a teacher, and a parent to a 10 year old, and that seems absolutely insane to me. I don't think many children of this age have the self-motivation and maturity to handle managing that study load without a lot of adult pressure. I'm not surprised you're getting some push-back.

So, with the hours of ‘extra tuition’ plus homework/practice from those and 11+ practice, you’re talking about the equivalent of another day’s worth of school work. No wonder he’s rebelling! When does he get to just switch off and relax?

He’s 9/10. Most kids of his age are not that self-motivated and need downtime. I think your expectations of him are weighty and controlling. Presumably he has music practice too. Why did you move him to a state school mid primary? Is your background in UK?

I wouldn't expect a 9/10 year old to get on with that stuff without prompting.

If it’s not a state grammar & it’s a private paid for school you want him to attend then why does he need to do any 11+ prep? They won’t really turn away paying customers unless they’re going to be badly behaved & disruptive. You would be better off developing his interests in sport, drama, outdoor activities. I feel a bit sorry for him - what on earth will you be expecting once he’s doing GCSE’s?

It's a happy school. Students finish at 3.30 pm, and the majority go to the community secondary school nearby. DS is the only one preparing for 11+.

A lot of private schools are academically selective, especially prestigious London day schools. Demand may change as vat on fees bites but it will still be competitive.

I'm guess I'm wondering whether it is worth it if the local secondary does well by the brighter kids?

We did 11+ for grammar and we did tutor 1 hour a week (no homework) from September of year 5 to march. Then we introduced 10 minutes daily tests, so 10 mins and maybe 10 mins going through anything. Over summer we moved to 1 hour a day. We had to incentivise it all with prizes for effort.

I think you're optimistic getting a 10 year old to choose work over running about in the garden tbh.

We spend 1.5 hours having dinner and watching TV of his choice every day. He also has Nintendo Switch and boardgame/Lego/playing card time every weekend.

My kid was doing many more hours for his recent 11+ than the ones you stated but he is in a prep school so everyone was preparing/studying hard

if others don’t study as well, he ll struggle (my kid would too).. you need to motivate him/bribe him

Also do you really need that French 2 hour weekend session? Really offers zero benefit for 11+ other than tiring him out. Use that time perhaps to focus on prep work rather than doing in during knackering evenings . Keep the school evenings for HW too, as you need to keep the momentum but keep it light if it makes sense , not too demanding

the trick (for us at least) was continuously prepping but light/gradual x

I don’t think many 9-10 year olds are proactive about studying for the 11+, your expectations may be a bit high.

Sorry I didn't make it clear. The local secondary school is not a great one (many behaviour issues) with over a half of students being pupil premium. We are moving later this year to an area where are some wonderful private schools.

I honestly feel sorry for all kids forced to go through 11+ style exams. Let them be kids FFS

I think you’re being unrealistic expecting a year 5 child to be proactive with extra-curricular learning. Does he do it willingly if you sit with him and guide him through it?
Some of my DCs friends did huge amounts of tuition and additional learning for the 11+. They hated every second.
Does your DC spend any time on physical activities/ outdoor play / sport?

Leave the poor kid alone, he's 9 or 10!!
If you're moving somewhere with plenty of private schools, there will be a not so academic option if he doesn't pass thr 11+. I would say that the amount of work you're putting into the 11+means he might find an academic school hard work.

I think you need to be a part of the 11+ prep....meaning daily you need to assign the task or get him started on the work. For example, its now time to do XYZ. I have gone through it twice and no children are self starters for the 11+ prep. They are just too young. But once you tell them what to do it should be fine, no pushing. Both of my kids wanted to do the 11+ and I helped guide them on what needed to be done. Of course I needed to tell them when to do the work. I assigned them 15-20 mins during the week after school and weekends an hour. Both did well and got into very good schools. Now they are independent at the school and I am not involved at all. It is great. No reminding for hw etc. They are in charge and doing well.

Yes how much time are you wanting him to spend on this. He is, what, nine or 10? It’s not easy to get a child that age to do something unless they really want to. What is his view – does he want to do the prep? Does he understand where it might help him go?

ETA: sorry I left my post and lots of ppl posted similar – plus @CherishL updated. Why does he do two hours’ French a week? Is that a family language you want him to keep up? Or is there an expectation at the private secondary he might go to that he will have done French to that extent?

Otherwise I would be inclined to let him drop that and do his 11+ work then instead.

BTW a high level of pupil premium does not as such indicate a poor school. And (and I realise this is simply anecdata) just about the smartest teenager I ever worked with was PP. They went on to study at Oxford.

@LIZS the OP says there is more than one private school where they are moving. I can’t honestly see them turning away a decent kid. It really won’t be as competitive as passing the 11+. There’s loads of kids in private schools who need SEND support. Many parents make sacrifices so their child can go in smaller classes so they can be better supported. I really don’t believe a 9 year old needs to do so much extra prep.

You’re likely to end up with a child who rebels against everything you think he should be doing. Hothousing children beyond their capabilities and motivation, often means that they struggle to thrive in school.

Academically selective schools can be very pressurised and not all children are suited to them. If you’re moving to a new area, are there state schools there that can meet your expectations.

If he’s struggling to keep up now and is really not enjoying the work and the pressure, it’s possible that the type of school you’re looking at will really not be a good fit for him.

I had to remind my child every child to do 11+!! After all the exams I kept reminding her as it was part of my routine “have you done your 11+?” 🤣 and I forgot exams were over. My experience is that at that age you have to stay on top of it. Do you have atom? Ask him to do 3-5 islands a day or something.
we also did less sports and piano for a year, my preference was to focus on getting into the right school vs piano progression. So maybe consider what he can drop for a bit.