Conflict with Y5 child over 11+ prep

[CherishL]

Has anyone had quarrels or arguments with their children during 11+ preparation?

My Year 5 son is academically bright and also very talented in music. We have been saving so that he can attend an independent school, as there are no grammar schools where we live, although there are some very good independent ones nearby.

However, I often feel that he is not as proactive as he should be, and I am becoming quite tired of constantly reminding him what to do. We even created a weekly schedule together showing when and what he should study, but he does not follow it. I also tried letting him plan his own study times, but he struggles to stick to that as well.

Today it reached the point where I ended up yelling at him and telling him not to do it anymore if he does not want to. It made me wonder whether perhaps he is not suited to a very competitive school environment, where many children seem highly driven and self-motivated.

Have any other parents experienced something similar? How did you manage it? Any advice or strategies that worked for you? And did your child still end up getting a place at the school they were hoping for?

Wow - these comments are clearly mostly from people who didn't do 11+ or aren't in areas where the good private schools are mostly quite academically selective (e.g. London).
Having gone through it myself (feeling little choice as we would have had to move otherwise due to falling outside the distance criteria for any of the half-decent state secondary schools in our area), I would surprised if many people manage to get through it without any battles, especially if you're at a state school and none of their friends are in the same boat.
Also, they are too young to take ownership of this - you need to decide how much they should do and agree it with them and remind them whenever they do something. (The hard / stressful part for me was knowing how much was enough myself - and I think this is the biggest benefit of a prep school.)
Small amounts daily much better than making it a big chunk of the weekend at this stage IMO.
Extra curricular stuff also really important IMO as it helps them with self confidence especially when they are finding the prep hard. But the extra curricular things need to be things they like - otherwise it really does all get too much.

*whenever they need to do something

Have you been to look round any of the schools? My DGS was very laid back but on seeing what was on offer at the local independents versus state he knuckled down and got into the one he most wanted. My advice, start attending open days/ evenings with him.

@CherishL if the 11+ is the main goal for him, then that should be the sole focus, just until he's accepted into your choice of independent.

It appears that he has significantly more obligations over and above this exam.

Could he just be overwhelmed or do you think he's lazy/not trying hard enough?

It may be worth restructuring his study schedule with a heavier leaning towards the 11+?

Also teacher here and agree totally. Mist homework is educionally unnecessary at primary level. You sound suffocating.

Typos - sorry.

You not answered any of my questions about activities outside of academics and piano. Does he go outside / play with friends / do anything sporty or active?

Teachers calling parents insane and suffocating for doing homework and educating their children are an utter embarrassment to the whole system 🤦‍♀️

That’s rubbish, my dc is bright. Bright enough to be top of the class at a London grammar? certainly not without a lot of work from them & input from me. I didn’t think the environment was right for them.

From my experience, the grammars only got academically intense from year 10. Before that it was all about broad learning and clubs and trips and going deep so exactly the kind of thing that suits naturally bright kids. The grammars cannot control the DFE and focus on exams in this country.

The fact that you allowed your child to spend 5 hours perfecting a story meant to take half an hour means he will be very poorly prepared for the rigour of an 11 plus exam which will require quick accurate working. I think your poor child is being suffocatex by your wants and very likely he might just get into an academic school and then burn out. I have seen it so often .Just let him be a child. The extra curricular you demand is far too much.

I would tell the teachers that your ds will not be doing the school homework during the 11+. We basically did this during the 11+ prep and the teachers did not mind, as my dc were doing well in the class. Also, a lot of the work turns out to be SATs prep, which was far too easy. The teachers understood the 11+ work was more important and more of a challenge. I guess they also saw that my dc were getting top scores for the SATs mocks so they understood no point in making them waste time doing the prep for it.

My dc were also motivated when they researched the private schools online. They wanted to do well and get in. My eldest actually enjoyed the 11+ process. But she also loves taking exams.....she is now asking to do GCSE mocks and SAT practice tests 😂And before anyone asks if she has a life out of school, yes she very much does. She also does netball, hockey and tennis out of school (and in school). She is very social as well with friends. Reads books for pleasure, bakes and cooks for fun.

This is just not the case in London, good schools have huge numbers of applications. Though I do agree with you that I feel sorry for him.

A lot of the same dc are applying for the same independents, it’s unusual for a dc to not get one of their options.

Every year I know plenty of dc that get a place at the independents but they don’t score high enough for the London grammars.

A lot of the same dc are applying for the same independents, it’s unusual for a dc to not get one of their options

They still need to prep for 11+, contrary to that ridiculous post 🤷‍♀️

Yes, you can get a place at a no-name private school but would you want to pay 30k+ for a mediocre school, unless in very specific circumstances (SEN, just arrived in the country mid-year and company pays etc)? 🤔

This is just not the case. My DD got into an academically selective school without any tuition other than me helping her with some maths past papers from the school for a couple of months before the exam. She decided to apply at a late stage so that she could go with her friend whose mother was determined she should go there. The friend had tuition for three years with the best local tutor and did not get a place.
My DD is naturally hard working and had a good standard of education from her local state primary, but would have been fine in our local state comprehensives had she not passed the entrance exam - none of us would have been bothered had she gone there.

@Ubertomusic I wasn’t saying that you didn’t need to do some prep for the popular London independents just that ime the London grammars are generally more competitive

Yes, you can get a place at a no-name private school but would you want to pay 30k+ for a mediocre school, unless in very specific circumstances (SEN, just arrived in the country mid-year and company pays etc)?

I am not sure what that has to do with my post but not every private is St Paul’s & that doesn’t mean they are mediocre.

I have read the OP and quite a lot of the thread. Here are some observations/ suggestions from my side.

I think it's important to normalise things, and I mean this as a relative measure. Private kids his age will be doing hours of set homework a week, state schools probably not. My DD never objected to this as it was normal and everyone had to do it. Generally my DD who is 12 now comes home after school, has maybe 15 mins downtime/ eat snack/ drink, etc and then works until hwork is cleared or till evening meal, normally at 6-6.30.

This may sound a fair bit but it compartmentalises time and makes her more productive. In the evening we watch TV etc and she just reads a few pages of her book before bed. So she gets a rest in the evening.

Until recently she'd almost get a complete rest at the wkend too, but bits are now creeping in. I think it benefits kids they are fresh returning to school on Monday.

Apart from this I must say I'd drop the French, as advanced level is unnecessary at his age. In its place sign up to duolingo and he can ad hoc retain his level. Just make sure he does a streak, maintains it, which is doing a bit everyday.

Apart from that, don't discount school holidays. Looking back what put my ahead of the game was maybe 0-3 hrs a day over school holidays. If she had time, was a bit bored, she'd go on an app, do a bit, and then do a fair bit more.

One contributor alluded to making things a shared experience and shared problems. If you want your kid to be self motivated imo this is essential. Set them off at the start of work with a small chat etc and when they've finished ask them to explain what they've done. Maybe chat around the angles a bit. Kids love this.

My BIL sent my nephew to Bancrofts at great expense as he didn’t score high enough for Latymer in Enfield or QE Barnet. My quick Google suggests Bancrofts is a highly sought after and selective school. As a PP said, just because a school isn’t a St Paul’s or a Westminster doesn’t mean it’s mediocre, and just because a school is a grammar not private doesn’t mean it’s more selective.

Your dd gets 2 hours of homework a day from school at age 12?! Sounds like she has a good evening routine, but I am just surprised about 2 hours of school work a day. Mine are at academic schools in London and def dont get that much homework.

We were using Atom, and it caused family strife as he didn't want to do it, and we are not teachers, so could not explain very well where he had gone wrong sometimes (we have 4 degrees between us, so not uneducated!) We were lucky enough to find a local tutor who he did an hour a week with plus some homework which was much better as it took us as parents out of the equation. He passed his entrance assessment with flying colours.

I'm not quite saying that but it's perhaps something around that amount. She's at an age now where there is a degree of independent learning and all that goes with it.

Like a few days ago she had some creative artwork to finish. I reckon she could have knocked something up in 30-60 mins, handed it in and been fine. Instead she probably takes 3 hours on it because she wants to do a really good job.

Similar for tests in class. She could perhaps get away with a hours revision and do OK in the test, but for big tests she might do 4 hrs say spread over a few days or a week because she hopes for a better mark.

But in a way what may sound onerous isn't, if it was she wouldnt self motivate herself into doing it.

No wonder so many boys have mental health problems as teens when they are under so much academic pressure as a young child ?

What about the local state schools? DC1 is incredibly bright - got a 1st from a top uni in a science subject and is now working as a scientist. DC1 went to an ordinary state comprehensive and came out of there with 4 x Astar at A-Level. The 6th form may as well have been a private school because the classss were tiny - 6 max pupils in the 3 sciences and about 10 in
maths.

Bright motivated children will do well in any half way decent school. We live near a grammar area and DC1 was also very unmotivated to do 11+ practice. I would recommend taking the pressure off. The last thing you want is for your DC to lose all motivation.

PS one of DC1’s uni friends is currently working in a very well known private school as a science teacher and does not have any teaching qualifications. So I’m not even convinced kids get a better education in private schools.