Conflict with Y5 child over 11+ prep

[CherishL]

Has anyone had quarrels or arguments with their children during 11+ preparation?

My Year 5 son is academically bright and also very talented in music. We have been saving so that he can attend an independent school, as there are no grammar schools where we live, although there are some very good independent ones nearby.

However, I often feel that he is not as proactive as he should be, and I am becoming quite tired of constantly reminding him what to do. We even created a weekly schedule together showing when and what he should study, but he does not follow it. I also tried letting him plan his own study times, but he struggles to stick to that as well.

Today it reached the point where I ended up yelling at him and telling him not to do it anymore if he does not want to. It made me wonder whether perhaps he is not suited to a very competitive school environment, where many children seem highly driven and self-motivated.

Have any other parents experienced something similar? How did you manage it? Any advice or strategies that worked for you? And did your child still end up getting a place at the school they were hoping for?

If they're French, it's unreasonable to drop French school.
Also, French school curriculum is much better than English so if they have academic lessons within two hours on Saturday, it may open up perspective of moving to France for uni (basically free unlike in the UK!). It is actually more valuable than 11+ place.

The negative comments are from jealous people whose kids couldn’t make it into academically selective school.

The schools are not competitive once you are in them.

It depends on the school, their ethos and demographics. Some are insanely competitive all the way through.

Op has said they do not speak it at home. Not clear why he attended a bilingual prep and then moved to state.

One parent cannot speak French fluently? It happens, y'know 😁

I considered sending DD to a French school in London even though we're not French, our American friends in the US sent their DC to a French school, no connection to France either. It's just the schools are usually so much better and the culture of learning and the value of knowledge are not lost yet, or at least it seems so.

Op implies neither do. They moved him for more teaching time in English. However there are more fun ways of keeping up a language than tuition.

11+ prep years were the worst of my life.

As others have said, be totally involved yourself in the prep. It's a competitive world and many parents are very involved in prep which can make a huge difference to outcomes.
Prep and music practise should happen every day, regardless of school homework or other commitments. Cut back on TV and encourage reading instead.
Take your child to visit the local state schools and the proposed independent schools so they can make the decision for themselves.

My son went through the 11+ - I was careful not to tutor him or give him much extra work to do, and always tied practice tests to rewards. He cleared it but I had mixed feelings about it at the time, as kids really shouldn't be hot housed that early (or at all). It is counter productive in the long run. Let him discover what he loves and is motivated by naturally.

Also bear in mind that part f the selection process is interviews and occasionally general observation during the assessment day. So he needs to be able to discuss likes of current affairs, favourites books and hobbies and socialise.

The depressing thing is that in London a whole bunch of non selective comps make them do this charade as well. Keeping the stress levels low for such young kids is a nightmare even if you’re not buying into the whole private school fandango

My DS is a happy, confident and much-loved only child. I would appreciate it if people did not assume he is unhappy or being pushed without knowing him. He loves reading, enthuses about Maths, enjoys playing the piano, and is proud to be able to speak three languages.

When I was in Year 6, I represented my home country in an international Maths competition. I remember very clearly how difficult it felt to have the ability and motivation but not always the resources or opportunities that some of my peers had. All of the pupils I trained with went on to top selective schools, whereas I was sent to a local community secondary school where, unfortunately, my interest and strength in Maths sometimes made me a target for bullying.

Those experiences shaped how I think about education and opportunities for my own child. I simply want to make sure that, if he has the interest and ability, we do our best to support him and give him the opportunities that I did not have.

My children all took 11+ and passed . 1hour a week with tutor and one practice paper ,alternating VR , NVR and Maths over the weekends. So approx 2.5 hours a week starting in Yr 5 . They all got into super selective schools .
OP I think your son needs more downtime,playing with friends,sports and general fun ! He is only a child.

OP your DS sounds similar to my DD, she can also spend four hours reading, drawing or writing and perfecting a story. From the neuropsychological point of view, this is absolutely normal at this age, and people develop in different ways and at different pace - eg this type of neurocognitive profile has a longer attention span and a more steady focus which is an advantage in itself - but of course 11+ tests are set for kids with faster processing speed. You could play speed games to help develop his processing speed, basically anything that relies on speed but ideally not computer games. It can be even carting as it also requires intense focus and fast reaction.
Make it completely unrelated to 11+, just normal fun games, but play them as often as possible. I wouldn't start timing his 11+ tasks just yet as he's not ready atm and would hate it.

Brain functions develop with regular training, just like muscles do :)

I believe we are in yr area!
Yr son says he sees the behaviour of the local secondary school kids and doesn't like it. What school wd he want to go to? My kid wanted a particular private secondary school, I said to her I wd help bt I cdnt do it for her. If she didn't get into the school she wanted then she wd have to go to a girls school which was her worst nightmare. She persevered, as did I, and she got a scholarship to said school. Phew!

You have to make them want it for themselves. Which school do they want to go to, and why. Ask them. The state primaries in no way prepare them so ur doing the right thing. Just keep it up. GL assessment books, first past the post, galore park past papers. I've got whole stash of them u might want tbh. Message me!

Ps. the behaviour u mention delaying etc cd be adhd / autism. Doesn't become obvious since many kids till much later on

Competing with who?? They are all already in.
Do you mean competing with each other? As in their classmates? That’s not been my experience. They champion each other. Some will be good at sports, some at music, some at drama, some at maths, some at English. And they celebrate each other.

I know kids from most of the indi’s in London (as they all socialise and go to the same parties) and I’d say this is true of all the kids I’ve met.

I have no involvement with other mums. It’s secondary school, the kids get themselves there and home.
If a tiger mum is hothousing their child, I simply wouldn’t know or care.

You admitted yourself that you're oblivious and wouldn't care :)

It's not relevant to the topic anyway. OP is not asking about specific schools.

Poor kid. You’re treating him like a young adult but he is only a CHILD. Listen to your child - are his needs being met?

Unless they are hobbies, I think you are asking too much for his age. My girls dance for 1.5 hours 6 days a week, but they love it and it's good for their health etc as well. Homework is 1 hour, French 15 minutes each morning, piano 30 minutes once a week. I know we do more than most at our school.

This is too much - your ds is too young to be labelled and pushed into this

My DD went to a selective London girls day school with a highly competitive intake, she'd been to a state primary and had no tuition and the school was fine for her. But be aware that schools do sometimes ask about tuition at interview and if a child has been tutored this is taken into account when comparing entrance exam results. They don't particularly want children who have had to be tutored to get a mediocre exam result and if two potential pupils have the same result they would take the one who has not had tuition if they don't have the room for both.

My son was similar. The motivation was not quite there because his friends (state school) were not particularly studying hard and he wondered why he had to.
I knew he was smart and that was the only reason I pushed/ guided. He is now in a year 7 grammar school and the way he has stepped up amazes his dad and I.
moving to the grammar environment and seeing other kids motivated makes him eager to study as well.
9/10 is young, they need your help and may not be proactive (esp boys because his sister is quite the opposite).

It seems pretty normal amount of work for a child preparing for insanely competitive 11+ exams in London. We've had this journey with our nearly 11 year old. It was a really tough year. In London and the area you are competing with many, many immigrants who have arrived in the last 10 years and have a normalized culture of tutoring since toddlerhood, so it's very, very tough. At this age you need to sit with him and watch what he is doing. We made a mistake of doing online tutoring with our son, and he just played online games instead of listening to the teacher. Timetable and sticking to it is a must. I'd leave French for a while, he doesn't need it at the moment and he can resume in September. I wish you strength and perseverance. Also, yelling won't help, I'd just offer rewards instead. BTW the only 2 children that we know that got in the 2 most competitive grammars attended a prep school and one had a daily 1h tutoring with a personal tutor.
For those who say it's too much, or "let kids be kids", unfortunately the world is becoming more and more competitive internationally, and it's not the same when we were children and 11+ was relatively easy. AI is killing off jobs, also in my profession, and it's not wrong to do everything in your power to provide the best possible future for your child. It's short-term pain for a big gain.

Your son sounds a lot like mine, the spending hours reading a book in the bathroom….etc etc we have just been through the 11+ and did it very much like a poster above, ten minute tests, moving to papers, moving to an hour a day in the summer holidays (which was brutal) all directed by a brilliant and very nurturing tutor. My son did 30 mins online French a week but I allowed him to skip the homework, also have had to let music take a bit of a backseat (although we then had an unexpected music scholarship to prep for) but he still did sport. I think a balance is the thing to aim for. There were days when I questioned our decision but he did end up getting top scores for a state grammar (and easily into a less academic indie with a scholarship).

Also, our tutor did some online sessions (and face to face) in the summer and mine really struggled with online, just messed about, even if though we were in the room, just couldn’t focus on it. I personally would not recommend online only.