No GCSEs at Latymer Upper

[DonkeyKon]

What do people think about this?

theoretically I agree with the premise.

practically , I worry that with everyone else having gcse results, it will disadvantage LU students when applying for universities.

I'd be keen to send kids to a school that does this. As PPs have said, lots of international students come here for A levels or for uni, and aren't held back by lack of GCSEs. In my kids' experience, GCSEs killed their interest in most of the subjects they had previously liked, esp EngLit and History. So much learning, relearning, testing, revising of the same narrow curriculum. So much teaching time spent on exam technique, not developing skills that are valuable outside exams. Felt like a waste of at least one year of education.
However, I might be tempted instead to go for something like the IB MYP programme that's less exams-focused but does give you some sort of qualification that proves wider learning beyond maths and English.

Probably not a comparable example, but what was the perception when preps or junior schools stopped taking SATS? It doesn't mean they're providing less education, private schools just assess pupils differently now but they're still successful in raising bright minds, without having to go through that bureaucracy. Kids in private schools don't have to go through the painful process during year 6.
Obviously GCSEs are different but I view it as a similar thing.. one school pioneers the way out of an old system and others follow.
Someone still needs to start and I really respect LU trying to innovate.

The thing with GCSEs is that they provide you with a qualification at age 16 regardless of whether you then continue to A-levels. If you don't do GCSEs and don't want to stay in education until 18, you will have no school leaver qualifications.

The children will continue to take GCSE in English and maths anyway.

DC going to LU would not be the type to drop out of school at 16...but if they did and wanted qualifications they could just pay to take the GCSEs privately.

I don't understand the rationale. With a selective intake they should be able to teach beyond the GCSE syllabus and still have pupils sit the exams and do well.

So what if GCSEs don't teach critical thinking? Presumably the teachers can teach critical thinking.

Winchester manage to do both. (Just thinking of Winchester since they have something called "Div" which is not linked to a GCSE syllabus, but they also do 9 I/GCSEs as standard.)

There is absolutely no need to test these privately educated, academically selected children at gcse.

They have already been filtered for academic competence at age 11. It’s therefore a given that with a very privileged and expensive secondary schooling, they will all achieve competence in what they are taught. So the GCSEs become a pointless rubber stamp because these are wealthy kids whose parents are capable of investing heavily in their education. And the family will have the savvy and connections to open “the right doors” even if A levels are a bust.

If the average comprehensive binned GCSEs there would be absolutely no way of knowing if their pupils had done fine at the point their broad education ended. Many kids choose a different pathway at age 16. They aren’t in a heavily tutored classes of 15 where the teachers have the time to coach them and discuss their futures with their parents.

Are they doing their own version? Schools can get their own courses accredited and moderated and universities accept them as the equivalent to GCSEs written by exam boards.

I think it sounds quite good. Like valuing actual education rather than hoop-jumping.

However, it is also enraging that a public school with an excellent reputation can consider this and it will probably cause no ill effects to its students' chances. 'Oh yes, Latymer', the admissions tutors will say, 'very progressive'. Whereas if Wigan Comprehensive decided to value the whole student's education and stop doing GCSEs their students would slide into failure and poverty wouldn't they.

This. It will. Also be quite effective at preventing prospective parents from being able to compare the quality of education by looking at how GCSE results compare to other schools.
I'd be very wary of any school doing this. But then I'd also be very wary of any school that uses iGCSE's instead of the normal ones as again, this is usually to avoid comparison with state schools

Will your child start LU this September?

So you think LU can provide that education even though they don't administer GCSE exams? Because the GCSE preparation process is long for children who prepare in the normal way. My daughter received offers from both LU and another grammar school, and we are still undecided. And we need to respond to LU this week to avoid paying penalty fees.

Yes, what you're saying is very true. However, from what I've seen, Oxbridge schools, in particular, place importance on GCSEs beyond mathematics and English, especially in medicine and other departments. So what happens then? What if they don't accept LU's evaluations? And we're not a very wealthy family, what are we going to do then?

So you think LU can provide that education even though they don't administer GCSE exams? Because the GCSE preparation process is long for children who prepare in the normal way. My daughter received offers from both LU and another grammar school, and we are still undecided. And we need to respond to LU this week to avoid paying penalty fees.

@DeepSeal, if the unis don’t accept the LU moderated alternative then LU will have to continue with GCSEs but of course you won’t know this information this week. I suspect that initially LU imagined more schools would join them on this route but this has not happened.
If the idea of no GCSEs is stressing you out this much then I would withdraw the offer today and take the grammar place. You can also revisit the private system at Year 9 when you have had 2 years experience of a grammar school - and if it’s Tiffin then an excellent education.

Yes, I think LU thought many more schools would be following them, but none of them were. Is your child at LU? Honestly, we're not very keen on changing schools because they're growing up and making friends later on might be a problem for them.

No I’m not a parent but I’m familiar with SW London schools, I also had a friend who rejected a place at Teddies in Oxford a few years ago because they dropped some GCSE’s - the school then bought them back under a new head and my friend moved the dc there for 6th form as they were a great supporter of the school - just not the GCSEs policy.
There is loads of movement in schools around year 9, don’t let that put you off but it sounds like you should take the grammar place.

As has been written above, though, you need to prepare for GCSE. That’s the time LU wants to save by not preparing students for it.

You can’t just decide you want to take GCSE’s and sit them, and expect to get a result which reflects your ability. It might work in Maths, especially if you’re going to score highly anyway, but otherwise you need to be taught the appropriate texts (English), the relevant periods, areas or issues in history and geography, the concepts and vocabulary in science and languages, and so on.

I definitely know that LU is very advanced in terms of facilities or support for kids. Also, many people are confident that LU won't do anything wrong and think it won't be a problem for the university.

It may be very difficult to apply to overseas Universities without recognised UK qualifications.

I did a degree in Sweden in my 40s and both my O levels and A levels were weighed into the average grade that was calculated as you need 10-12 subjects to qualify for Uni - with O-level/GCSE maths and English and A level Swedish (or the TISUS test) compulsory subjects for Uni entry

I wonder if the pupils will still be expected to pick options in Y9? As it stands, most pupils will be studying around 16 subjects at KS3, but only taking nine at GCSE. Presumably, if the aim is greater depth, they will still have to jettison a number of subjects before the start of KS4. I’d be interested to know what effect the lack of GCSEs will have on more niche subjects (MFL, Classics, Music etc).

Agree GCSEs feel outdated and less about enjoying a subject but marking requirement heavy. Our experience is as others have said, enjoyment goes and leave students unable to really define what they want to study at A' Level as everything narrows so suddenly and is the path for uni and life thereafter usually quite set in stone. IB is a more diverse route and I am surprised LU isn't switching to that as they could presumably beat Sevenoaks if they had 6 months extra teaching for it, giving their kids many more options at University. Sevenoaks ranks 5th in the world I think?

I agree that GCSEs are outdated, but they are still very important for Oxbridge universities. Graduates from LU will only have GCSEs in Math and English. I'm really curious how this will affect these students going into the uni !