No GCSEs at Latymer Upper

[DonkeyKon]

What do people think about this?

theoretically I agree with the premise.

practically , I worry that with everyone else having gcse results, it will disadvantage LU students when applying for universities.

I'd never let my DC be guinea pigs for a new educational approach. If it was established and you could see that it hadn't been a problem for 10 years post GCSE, then maybe. I'd certainly not pay for my DC to be guinea pigs.

When prep schools don't do SATs or follow national curriculum it's not a good thing. Been there - son switched to local school and was really behind on maths. Taught us that 3 full afternoons of sport in years 3 and 4 was madness. So, obviously, I think not taking exams everyone does is also madness. Who is the policy aimed at? Academic children are not served by it and less academic children risk leaving school à la Lady Diana Spencer circa 1977

Many jobs require GCSEs, I was asked for my certificates (which I’ve lost in multiple house moves) for a job a few years back, I have a post grad diploma, a degree and 3 a levels

I think it is possibly fine if the pupil stays on, does A levels, gets excellent grades. (I assume they are at least doing Eng Lang and Msths though).

However what if:
, they want to move for A level
. They decide to go a vocational route
. They are ill during 6th form and end up not taking their A levels or doing poorly

Without the backup proof of great GCSE grades it will be much harder to convince anyone that actually they are capable, should anything divert from good 6th form results.

Risky.

I imagine the decision is to prevent people leaving after 16, as very very few places will take them.

If they don’t have maths and English language a lot of jobs are automatically out of reach until they secure those grades. The same for some university courses as well.

What is the school’s rationale for removing GCSE’s?

As much as I don’t love GCSEs I’m not convinced about trying to drop out of the system piecemeal, especially as A-levels are so specialist. Without GCSEs you don’t have proof of basic competence in English and maths.

I can't see them attracting many families with this policy, unless they are uber wealthy and aren't that bothered about their kids' academics and definitely want to stay on at the school until 18.

What is the thought process behind this? Is it going to affect this summer's intake or the students that currently attend?

I thought medicine looked at GCSE results.
Teaching requires science, maths and English.

I help adults get into work and not having GCSEs is a barrier.

If a child struggles at A level then they will leave school with nothing.

They must be doing Engl Lang and Maths though surely? Not doing them would be highly negligent!

My guess is that without being restricted by GCSEs they can continue with a broader curriculum, and still cover content as they won't need to spend hours revising or teaching directly to exam marking schemes.

So in theory the kids come out better educated, but no proof so you just have to take it on trust?

A quick Google says they are retaining maths and English

The £24,000-a-year Latymer Upper School in Hammersmith will drop all GCSEs apart from English and maths. It said this will stretch pupils further and free up a quarter of its teaching time.

This is from 2023, so at least the 2024 Y7s were aware when they joined that they would be the first year to not follow the GCSEs.

However 'free up a quarter of its teaching time' sounds more like a money saving exercise than a benefit to the students.

Not entering for GCSEs saves (someone) money from exam fees and administration. But presumably they are teaching something in the 'quarter of teaching time' freed up?

They won’t be able to do med / vet / dent as those courses look at GCSEs. Probably not Oxbridge either.

International students don't have GCSEs and can still access those courses at Oxbridge & Russell Group. I don't think universities are necessarily the problem. It's more of a problem for those wanting to leave school at 16.

It’s not a problem. I moved to the UK from Australia when I was 16 (mum got a job in the UK) and I started 6th form. Didn’t have any GCSE or any Aus equivalents actually as moved before sitting them.

took A levels and got into uni fine with my predicted a level then firm a level grades. Never needed a gcse and have lived in England ever since

But you weren’t doing medicine. And it’s very different if you come from a country that doesn’t do GCSEs than from the uk what it is the expectation.

I doubt the former point is an issue - it’s one of the most academically successful schools in the country, and very competitive to get a place.

Shows the madness of fee increases in recent years.

£24k in 2023 - £31k this year (!).

Obviously there are arguments both ways on GCSEs, but why not be open minded to some schools trying removing or radically overhauling them? If parents are scared then they can choose other schools over Latymer.

If no- one innovates then we are stuck with the same format for ever! Do we need major public exams at 16 now? Some other countries do not do this preferring courseworks and school assessments and reports.

Exams at 16 emanated from when children left school then, now they are legally obliged to be in some form of training or education until 18.

GCSEs are hugely stressful, pressurising 15–16-year-olds when they have a lot of changes going on. The process is largely based on memorising stuff, not real understanding. Why do we need memory tests when people have lifelong access to information on the device in their pocket?
Maybe we would be better off focussing more on interpreting and building on knowledge rather than regurgitating it.
Many schools end up teaching exam technique rather than broader learning.

I may be biased, as the parent of a neurodiverse child who struggled with the process, but GCSEs do favour more academically linear learners. In places like Finland and Sweden they do marks based on pupils’ overall performances using marks and work throughout the year with varied internal teacher assessments and no external testing until 18. Finnish and Swedish people ( pre Brexit) have obtained good jobs in the UK so employers must be able to accommodate recruitment without GCSEs. Lots of jobs do say GCSEs or equivalents, so maybe school leaving certificates could be equivalents?

Maybe it needs some brave schools to innovate and develop alternatives to an outdated, embedded system? Sometimes radical steps work, and are needed to lead the way.

On an individual level it might not be a problem (Richard Branson for example) but on a wider level I can't see how this will work.

For those that don't do well at A level.
For those that apply to normal employers (Latymer approached 'Top' employers according to the article) it is already an issue with employers not believing a 4 is a pass, they will look at 2 GCSEs and think they failed the others. Or they will think they went to some alternative school, which will not be seen as favourable in many areas of employment.

@lonelyplanetmum I do agree with you. I think GCSEs are outdated and fail many children.

The problem with trying a new idea, is that the outcomes for these children, and how it affects them isn't known.

It is easy to think that your high flying Y7 will be fine as they have mapped out their studies until university, but so much can change between Y7 and Y13.

Risky, some A levels you need to get 7 at GCSEs to progress without this benchmark some DCs may do A levels subjects and not be suited. Unless they teaching A levels over 3/4 years and not 2 years? Big firms using Al at screening which strip out school names etc and just check GCSEs, A levels and university subjects and grade.
They can’t move at Sixth form to state, other private schools etc because they ask for GCSEs.

Looking at the history Latymer Upper announced this in September 2023 that it will drop most GCSEs (except maths and English) replacing it with its own curriculum starting in 2027.
So parents can go elsewhere or not apply if it is too radical for them. Looking at pupil numbers they have not been affected by this change. The school is still highly competitive, offering 170 year 7 places with over seven applicants for each place.
The irony I suppose is that they will still have the pressure of a highly competitive 11+ and interview to get in, in the first place. However I think I’d think that was worth the pressure then to avoid the GCSEs later!

Getting a mark based on overall performance and continuous internal assessment sounds more stressful to me, not less.