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Secondary education

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Why white children are not getting into grammar schools

303 replies

deanstreet · 13/02/2026 15:23

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/11/why-white-children-are-not-getting-into-grammar-schools/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_fb_photo_not-getting-into-grammar-schools

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deanstreet · 15/02/2026 22:03

https://www.gbnews.com/news/grammar-schools-white-britons-places-pupils-apply-china

Britons are missing out on highly competitive grammar school places as pupils apply from thousands of miles away.
Students are submitting applications from as far as China, with tutor agencies noting growing interest from overseas households who intend to relocate should their children secure a spot.

One north London grammar school processed nearly 3,000 applications for just 104 places during the 2024-25 academic year. They ultimately admitted just one White British pupil.
A neighbouring selective school faced similar pressure, with approximately 3,300 candidates vying for 192 spots. That institution accepted merely two White British children.

Freedom of Information requests submitted to over 50 of England's 163 state grammar schools have revealed the extent of this nationwide scramble for elite educational opportunity.
Data from 22 schools providing comparable figures shows White British pupil numbers fell at 20 of them between 2019-20 and 2024-25.
Meanwhile, 14 of 20 schools reporting on Indian-heritage children recorded increases in this cohort. Chinese pupil numbers rose at 14 of 18 institutions with available data, while Black pupil figures remained broadly stable.
Pate's Grammar in Cheltenham witnessed white British admissions drop from 63 to 28 as Indian-heritage numbers rose from 45 to 72.

According to Cheltenham Borough Council, 83.3 per cent of residents in the region are White British in comparison to just 4.1 per cent Asian or Asian British.
Sir Thomas Rich's in Gloucester experienced a similar pattern, with White British starters declining from 102 to 53 while Indian-heritage pupils doubled from 22 to 45.
In the 2021 Census, 87.7 per cent of Gloucester residents were White Britons. By contrast, 2.9 per cent were Asian or British Asian.
Queen Elizabeth's boys' grammar in Barnet saw its White British Year 7 intake plummet from nine to just two within a 192-pupil cohort, while Indian-heritage students climbed from 103 to 120.

At Henrietta Barnett girls' grammar, a solitary White British pupil gained entry in 2024 alongside 62 from Indian backgrounds.
Professor Lee Elliot Major, who holds the chair in social mobility at Exeter University, gave a stark assessment of what these trends represent.
"When families are travelling hundreds of miles to sit an entrance test, it's a sign that a system originally designed to serve local academic talent is now operating as a national and global race for elite opportunity," he said.
"If you can't plan, pay and prepare years in advance, the race is often over before it has even begun. This is no longer just a test of academic potential, it's a test of who can dedicate significant resources for the preparation."
Professor Peter Edwards, a fellow of St Catherine's College, Oxford, who was raised in a working-class Liverpool household, said: "White children from poorer backgrounds are simply being left behind."

He identified white working-class boys as "the largest group of disadvantaged young people in this country" whose plight "has always been the least fashionable" to address.
"Attempts at drawing attention to this problem have been lazily targeted as so-called 'far-right' political thinking," he said.
"I have heard comments that the cause of this complex problem is this particular class of young people's 'sense of themselves'. This is simplistic and bigoted.
"If this country is serious about social mobility, we must target where the attainment gaps are largest."

Applications have come from far and wide. Sir Thomas Rich's School in Gloucester received an application from Shanghai in 2024, while Stroud High School reported a Chinese applicant that same year.

However, Professor Elliot Major urged caution when interpreting the ethnic data, noting that white British pupils are more likely to hail from lower-income households and reside in areas where educational achievement has not consistently translated into opportunity.

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suburburban · 15/02/2026 22:28

RichardOnslowRoper · 15/02/2026 18:58

Exactly. On another thread, posters are lamenting how the UK is becoming less white, overrun by low earning benefit scroungers with no education who don't integrate and hate women. Some of us have heard this for years, and now Reform is bringing it back.

So some of us Asians with no family wealth or connections and funny forrin names, got an education , encouraged our children- both boys and girls- to get the best one they could, and also encouraged them to earn well and pay their taxes. Never rely on the state. Bust down the walls of Oxbridge and LSE. Break the glass ceiling. We integrated.

In return, we are now called sharp-elbowed at best and abusive at worst.
What would people like? Do you want uneducated foreign benefit scroungers or highly educated doctors, lawyers and engineers? You can't have it both ways.
Or is it that we should integrate just enough to not be on benefits, but not enough to take the grammar school places or jobs you see as your own?

You can still get a good education at a comprehensive school

perhaps it would be good to have more of a mix in grammar schools.

Both my dps went to grammar school and i have brought my own dc up to value education but we did give them time to stop and stare as well and make their own decisions

RichardOnslowRoper · 15/02/2026 22:33

suburburban · 15/02/2026 22:28

You can still get a good education at a comprehensive school

perhaps it would be good to have more of a mix in grammar schools.

Both my dps went to grammar school and i have brought my own dc up to value education but we did give them time to stop and stare as well and make their own decisions

The comps near me were terrible.

Obviously I didn't allow my DC to make their own decisions. Why would I? After all, Asians don't. 🙄

deanstreet · 15/02/2026 23:23

The VAT is pushing the academically inclined families towards grammars.
I reckon a lot of families could afford 20k, but not 30k, and they naturally find alternatives in grammars, squeezing out the marginally admitted white population.

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Gunsgunsguns · 16/02/2026 00:40

What are you suggesting OP? That we ban non locals from grammar entry?

CheerfulMuddler · 16/02/2026 07:31

A single applicant from Shanghai is hardly a torrent. Most of the children at grammar schools live relatively locally (most have catchments). Who cares what color their skin is?

suburburban · 16/02/2026 07:46

CheerfulMuddler · 16/02/2026 07:31

A single applicant from Shanghai is hardly a torrent. Most of the children at grammar schools live relatively locally (most have catchments). Who cares what color their skin is?

I disagree about their residence

I think they should actually live in the UK before they even get a look in and at least some where nearby even if it is in another county/borough. They haven’t paid any council tax or taxes so why are they even being considered

Dahlagain · 16/02/2026 08:37

@deanstreet every Asian i know pushes education to the top of their priorities. I met a lady who does waxing, her daughter is being tutored. I met a corner shop owner, his son is off to one of the top grammars in the country. These people come from nothing. But in work, its predominantly white. Asians have to work much harder to get ahead, and they give their kids a start by prioritising education

smogsville · 16/02/2026 08:51

@CheerfulMuddlerround our way it’s not the case that most of the children who get into the grammar live relatively locally. The entrance exam is a national (not to say international - I think you’re right to say that there are probably relatively few who come from abroad, although the option is there) contest. The children who end up taking up places come from all over London and Herts. Some of the coaches leave their destinations on the outer reaches of east/ west London at 7am every morning. Would it be so outrageous for applicants to need to live within some sort of limited radius?

Fluffypuppy1 · 16/02/2026 08:55

suburburban · 16/02/2026 07:46

I disagree about their residence

I think they should actually live in the UK before they even get a look in and at least some where nearby even if it is in another county/borough. They haven’t paid any council tax or taxes so why are they even being considered

I agree. A DN went to a grammar school with a very high immigrant population. Several students said that their parents had specifically moved to the UK a few years before purely for their DC to go to grammar school.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 16/02/2026 09:00

Fluffypuppy1 · 16/02/2026 08:55

I agree. A DN went to a grammar school with a very high immigrant population. Several students said that their parents had specifically moved to the UK a few years before purely for their DC to go to grammar school.

Yes, and then worked really, really hard to get in.

If we want OUR kids (whatever colour) to get into grammar, they need to also work really, really hard.

It's all about your focus. If you'd rather pay for flash holidays and big cars than tutors for your children, don't winge when they don't pass the entrance test for the local grammar.

smogsville · 16/02/2026 09:15

@SlightyamusedandsillyI used to agree with you in principle but I wonder what your understanding of working really really hard is. The bar has been raised it’s not just a case of allocating money for tutoring instead of cars/ holidays. It’s relentless. A (very capable) boy in my son’s class was taken out of school and home tutored for the whole of Y5 in and still missed getting a place by a tiny margin. Is that what you’d want for your children?

Fluffypuppy1 · 16/02/2026 09:19

Slightyamusedandsilly · 16/02/2026 09:00

Yes, and then worked really, really hard to get in.

If we want OUR kids (whatever colour) to get into grammar, they need to also work really, really hard.

It's all about your focus. If you'd rather pay for flash holidays and big cars than tutors for your children, don't winge when they don't pass the entrance test for the local grammar.

Some of the kids were really struggling after being hot housed to pass the exam. A single exam that you can be coached to pass isn’t the best way to identify the brightest students.

A friend of my DC goes to a nearby grammar school, and had 2 to 3 hours of homework per night from the start of year 7. If you’re intelligent enough, a state school student is capable of excellent gcse results without that amount of study per day.

deanstreet · 16/02/2026 09:25

that is white people mentality. Just be happy and relax, if you are smart, don't worry.

In that case, don't complain.

OP posts:
DannyDeever · 16/02/2026 09:41

suburburban · 16/02/2026 07:46

I disagree about their residence

I think they should actually live in the UK before they even get a look in and at least some where nearby even if it is in another county/borough. They haven’t paid any council tax or taxes so why are they even being considered

I also think UK state schools should be exclusive to UK people (by whatever definition.)

I find it very hard to believe that's not already the case. People can apply from abroad? How does that even work?

Slightyamusedandsilly · 16/02/2026 09:47

Fluffypuppy1 · 16/02/2026 09:19

Some of the kids were really struggling after being hot housed to pass the exam. A single exam that you can be coached to pass isn’t the best way to identify the brightest students.

A friend of my DC goes to a nearby grammar school, and had 2 to 3 hours of homework per night from the start of year 7. If you’re intelligent enough, a state school student is capable of excellent gcse results without that amount of study per day.

And if that's what you feel is best for your children, it's absolutely fine.

I'm not saying an average state school is bad. I'm saying, if you have your heart set on a grammar, you have to work towards it.

Those non-white families don't just tutor to get into grammar by the way. They employ tutors all the way up to A Levels. It isn't a short, sharp burst. It's a long-term commitment to education.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 16/02/2026 09:51

smogsville · 16/02/2026 09:15

@SlightyamusedandsillyI used to agree with you in principle but I wonder what your understanding of working really really hard is. The bar has been raised it’s not just a case of allocating money for tutoring instead of cars/ holidays. It’s relentless. A (very capable) boy in my son’s class was taken out of school and home tutored for the whole of Y5 in and still missed getting a place by a tiny margin. Is that what you’d want for your children?

No. But I do employ tutors alongside average state-school education and I plan to do it until the age of 18 where it is needed. I'd love to think I didn't need to but I can see (at least currently) that it's necessary.

And I have every sympathy for state-school teachers. Getting the best out of every child in a class when you have 32 students 6 times a day (seeing almost 200 kids a day) is obviously completely impossible. So parents have to support. And no, we don't have big cars or expensive holidays. We are white but value education above other luxuries.

Nitgel · 16/02/2026 09:52

What jobs do there hot housed kids do ultimately?

Dahlagain · 16/02/2026 09:59

Nitgel · 16/02/2026 09:52

What jobs do there hot housed kids do ultimately?

Kids i know are going into investment banking, dentistry

RichardOnslowRoper · 16/02/2026 10:07

Nitgel · 16/02/2026 09:52

What jobs do there hot housed kids do ultimately?

One of my 'hothoused' kids is an engineer and the other is doing a masters in economics and has been offered a job in a consultancy on graduating.

Araminta1003 · 16/02/2026 10:12

@smogsville - for people who live in London near train stations, the commute is not that bad. If you live near London Bridge station (walking distance) there are quite a few grammar schools your DC can easily access.
In addition, I do not know anyone who goes for it who just sits their DC for one exam! There are plenty of options and actually, you can never guarantee them doing well on one day.
So lots of people are now sending their DC to eg 4 sets of exams in the autumn term of year 6. If they are bright and capable, a lot of kids do not mind and have been bored out of their minds in state primary. For the right sort of child, it is a good extension. They then relax in the rest of year 6.
My own DC did the exams and then wanted to do two sets of Grade 8 Abrsm exams in year 6 too. Some of the other kids are playing sport at extremely high level too or musical theatre or drama or whatever. All this nonsense of gifted kids being hothoused just academically is just nonsense. A lot of bright kids are multitalented and bored without extension opportunities. Yes, for Indian boys it is often Cricket, so what. They are playing county cricket, at least.
I do feel sorry for the kids who need tutors all the way through. Ultimately, they will have to get a job one day without a tutor.
If they are in average state schools being lost in the crowd without good teaching aimed at their level, completely understand why they need a tutor.
Or sometimes they are maths genius and the school is not teaching to the international Olympiad or Cambridge STEP level even in a top grammar, so again, if they are capable of international level maths and it is beyond their parents and they are better than their teachers, nothing wrong with tutoring. People do it in sports, they do it for music etc. I have to work from home one day a week just to drive my DC to a music teacher who can extend them at their level.

suburburban · 16/02/2026 11:05

Slightyamusedandsilly · 16/02/2026 09:47

And if that's what you feel is best for your children, it's absolutely fine.

I'm not saying an average state school is bad. I'm saying, if you have your heart set on a grammar, you have to work towards it.

Those non-white families don't just tutor to get into grammar by the way. They employ tutors all the way up to A Levels. It isn't a short, sharp burst. It's a long-term commitment to education.

I remember employing a tutor for dd in 6th form to help her improve her A level biology, she was bright but it was how you approached the questions itms.

it definitely helped her to achieve and go on to have the career she aspired to

OhDear111 · 16/02/2026 11:19

@Araminta1003What grammars don’t get dc into Cambridge for maths every so often? My local ones do. And we are lowly Bucks grammars - not super selectives. None of the dc I know who went have had separate tutors.

Lavenderflower · 16/02/2026 11:39

i think some communities start the preparation early - they know what school they want their child to attend before their child is born and start tutoring as soon as possible. Children from white backgrounds probably don’t get this head start. With that being said I think drives as some whites parents to send their children to private schools as they don’t want their child to be the only white one.

CheerfulMuddler · 16/02/2026 12:09

UK state schools should be for absolutely everyone, no questions asked. That's what universal education means. If people genuinely are traveling to the UK to access education, the vast majority of them will be in private boarding schools and universities. And honestly, both are grateful for the money.
Having said that, I do think grammars should have catchment areas. Liverpool was until relatively recently short 400 school places, in part because of DC from surrounding areas traveling in to the schools (mostly religious schools where church attendance trumps distance but yes, also the grammar).
I do think there are more important things than relentlessly tutoring a child, yes. If that's white person mentality, so be it. One reason birth rates in Korea are so low is because being a child or a parent is such a miserable, expensive experience there. My youngest DC is dyslexic, not very academic, and wants to be a tree surgeon when he grows up. Good for him, honestly. Yes, he does his homework. Yes, we read to him every night and take him to museums and teach him his times tables and so on. But there is no universe where hot housing him into failing the 11+ is going to be anything other than miserable for both of us. So he'll be going to a different school to DC1 and that's fine. I'd rather he spent his evenings doing hobbies, playing with friends and having a happy childhood. I don't actually think that makes me a bad person.
DH used to say that as soon as you introduce a metric, people will figure out how to game it. I genuinely don't believe it's possible to make an 11+ that can't be manipulated. But as I said upthread, I don't really believe they should exist at all ...

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