Why white children are not getting into grammar schools

[deanstreet]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/11/why-white-children-are-not-getting-into-grammar-schools/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_fb_photo_not-getting-into-grammar-schools

We are brown. But the east Asians do very well as well.

I had always thought in general asian do better than brown academically, plus they are very into music.

Brown people are till from Asia

Either way, it is very clear to me that asian and brown are academically top of the school pile.

They are look at GCSE grades and A-levels they massively out perform.

Evidence in the USA shows they even out earn.

The ONS doesn’t have “Brown”. Classifications attached.

Personally, I am done with filling in any type of “classification” for both my DC and myself. I just state “prefer not to say” when actually thinking, none of your fucking business! I understand that for health it was meant to help initially, but it has gone too far. As far as I am concerned, it is nobody’s business what ethnic group or race any of us are or what mix.

@Araminta1003 When considering prostate cancer, men should know they are in a higher risk group. This is proven to be linked to ethnicity. Ethnicity data for health matters. It’s helpful to help others by giving info.

Just an honest question to anyone, if you are 50:50 between 3 and 4, do you choose 5, or tick whatever?

I don't actually know. I've been ticking all sorts for DC, who face a similar scenario when filling these forms.

The biggest difference is that they are white before their wealth. There is so much racism (even if it's unconscious) embedded into education and subsequently employment that black/brown families cannot afford to simply sit back and relax and see what happens.

@grammargran from my experience of finance in the city, its still predominantly white in senior roles. Those who are Asian tend to be extremely well spoken/well educated and often very little of their asian-ness left ie they could be white if you heard them. And barely anyone black. So I believe those in minorities have had to work harder to get ahead hence parents push them hard at school.

Depends who you mean by "they". And the patterns are quite different at GCSE vs A level. When it comes to getting really good A level grades, Chinese students are vastly better than White British ones, Indian students a lot better, but Pakistani & Bangladeshi students markedly worse (making 'South Asian' overall not so different on average), with both black Caribbean & black African doing far worse.

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels-apprenticeships-further-education/students-aged-16-to-18-achieving-3-a-grades-or-better-at-a-level/latest/

Yes yes, seen this before. I agree with you.

Even those somewhat disaggregated numbers aren't all that helpful, though far better than "Asian", e.g. if you were able to drill down into "Indian" you'd see what's widely known to anyone who's had extensive dealings with that diaspora, namely that British Indians of East African migrant heritage (Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania) are a class all to themselves, in socioeconomic terms not representative of "Indian" at all, and hugely dragging up the number of very high achievers (as opposed to quite good achievers), and if you got really into it you'd even see within "Chinese" huge divergence between those with origins in eg Malaysia vs HK vs mainland vs Vietnam etc.

@StuffyHuffyPuffy I don’t work for the ONS but I assume there is guidance!

And white British when you dwell deeper you see massive differences based on region and socioeconomic background and „class“ for want of a better word.

I was saying in the USA by incomes and wealth I checked and "Asians" do better.

In the UK raw pay wise Asian borns are paid generally 11% than white British

"Asian" in the US means something very different, mostly East Asian, the biggest groups, in order, being Chinese, Indian, Filipino, Vietnamese, and Korean.

In the UK, it's almost all South Asian, the biggest groups being Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, and Sri Lankan.

The average South Korean and Pakistani (especially Mirpuri) family has less in common with each other than the average South Korean and "white" families.

As an Asian American, I am very surprised in the UK Asians refer to brown people. In both US and Asia, Asians refer to Asians, not brown people. In top US schools, students (and professors) are mostly Asians, and then brown, and then white, very few BME.

Because Asian and brown parents are very committed to education from a young age and have a high tendency to tiger parent. In a competitive (non-welfare) society, success in life generates self-respect and happiness, whilst in a welfare-state (UK?) the white mentality gears towards happiness now.

Class is definitely a huge factor

"Asians refer to Asians, not brown people"

People are using Asian as a shorthand for whichever Asian group is most represented where they are. In the US that's East Asian, in the UK that's South Asian.

I’m from Asia, in Asia, Asian refers to Asians, we look very dimly on people who like to pretend that Asia is only east Asia, as thats a pretty racist view. We would also never use the racist term starting with O either.

I’d just use the ons definitions. Not invent our own. Then official stats will actually mean something and as this thread was about grammar schools, what has the USA got to do with it?

Yes, class is usually the biggest factor not ethnicity or race. Proportionally more Chinese or Indian immigrants are educated and come to the UK to work in white collar jobs, whereas immigrants from Bangladesh are usually less educated and higher proportion works in low skilled jobs.

However, there is still an effect of cultural background, but it is not as high when controlled for class and education.

To a PP…
How do you mean “sound white”. Do you mean they have a British approach to life and accent? My parents are immigrants but are white, but I sound very “English” and have an English sense of humour.
Sure that applies to all those who are “second generation “?