Why white children are not getting into grammar schools

[deanstreet]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/11/why-white-children-are-not-getting-into-grammar-schools/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_fb_photo_not-getting-into-grammar-schools

All of this demonstrates why we shouldn’t be funding grammar schools, most part of the country do not have grammar schools in fact. All children should have access to high quality comprehensive education and a level playing field across the country.

@suburburban I’ve just looked the Greenwich Judgment up. It seems it’s more about a LA not being able to give preference to a child living within its own borough boundaries over one who might be just over the border in the next borough, but geographically closer to a Greenwich school as the crow flies. That’s how I’ve always understood school admissions to work in London - and very different to saying anyone can apply from anywhere in the country (or beyond). If that was what the GJ meant then no school would be able to have distance as an admissions criterion and as we all know, this is how most comps admit children, after looked after/ FSM/ children of staff/ siblings etc.

Yes thanks that makes sense and mine went to school in a different area so I totally understand that but not from abroad when not even living in the UK, to me that isn’t fair and shouldn’t be entertained

also how does GS work with SEN admittances as I know they will have SEN students

@suburburbanI agree with you, it’s ludicrous. SEN - no idea, I think each GS must have the ability to set its own policy, presumably with governors’ approval? Certainly QE which is the grammar round the corner from me admits 100pc through the entrance test so there must be an exemption or no actual legal requirement to admit SEN, or give priority to looked after children for example.

Of course grammar schools take SEN children, as long as they do well enough in the 11 plus to qualify for a place. There are access arrangements for the 11 plus test, if needed.

There are students in my DC's grammar school with dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism, ADHD etc.

The quality of SEN support differs from school to school. It is often said that grammar schools are not the best at supporting students with SEN but I'm sure that varies between schools rather than being a problem peculiar to grammar schools.

DS has kids with SEND in his class and year group. Diagnosed SEND will get accommodation in entrance exams extra time, side rooms, even movement breaks theoretically. Also for dyslexia - so parents who get the diagnoses on time in primary can get the adjustments.
For some children with Autism and high intelligence grammars can be a much better environment. Less bullying of nerdy autistic kids with special interests for a start.

No, they don’t set their own criteria.
They’re state schools and the over subscription criteria is exactly the same as for all state schools, with the obvious exception of a pass in the 11+ test being the primary criteria for selective education. And even that has an appeals process.

Yes fair points - I think what I meant was the general policy of parents of children with EHCPs having the legal right to choose any school they like. That’s usually in the admissions criteria. But I don’t think it can be at QE, for example, as entry is 100pc exam. There are of course lots of children with SEND who don’t have EHCPs.

Blue Coat, entrance is ranked by exam results, with 26 places reserved for pupil premium children. I think an EHCP is used as a tie break, but a care leaver or child with an EHCP will not get a place above a higher-scoring child without (though children with SEN can ask for reasonable adjustments such as extra time in the entrance test).
Lol at the idea that all state schools use exactly the same criteria though. Where I live some schools prioritise church attendance, others a baptism certificate, others 'proof of Jewish faith' which is a complicated points system of things like what school your parents went to. Some give places by lottery after fair banding, some by lottery without fair banding, some to children in the attached junior school, some to children in schools in the same academy chain. Comparatively few Liverpool secondaries use distance. Blue Coat ranks by exam mark, Wirral grammars rank everyone who's passed the 11+ by distance. Most don't give preference to siblings, but some do. It's the Wild West over here. EHCPs and care leavers are about the only constants.

I think different areas must be different. We live in an area full of grammar schools, but our local comprehensives are also amazing and produce some great results and have wonderful facilities. I feel like the grammar schools have allowed some of those who did not get in to flourish and thrive in the comprehensives, with a lot of them getting better results than the bottom sets of the grammar schools. My DC are in grammar and both schools have children with SEN. Both SEN departments are outstanding with their provision and support. Incredibly pastoral too. Children with SEN are able to get access arrangements for the 11+ exams. There is also priority for children in care and with an EHCP and a set amount of children who qualify for PP.

I agree. There are all sorts of talented children at my DC grammar. Some are playing sport at county or international level. Some are off to a variety of olympiads. Some are performing on the West End and others already perform professionally with their chosen instrument. While others are exhibiting their art work in local galleries.

Not sure what you’re getting at. The EHCP doesn’t override the necessity of passing the academic test. Beyond that, it’s treated exactly the same as it would be in any state school.

Indeed!

I once made the mistake here of mentioning relatives of mine (Irish immigrants) who researched the education system thoroughly and made sure their children (my cousins) were well.prepared for the 11+. I did the same when I had my DCs in the US. There were remarks about "sharp elbows"...

Plenty of Asians in Classical Music field as well.

@ZookeeperSE I’m not getting at anything. I’m trying to work out how different schools manage admissions. All I see from the published historical data on how places are allocated in our borough is that the local grammar admits 100pc of children via the entrance test whereas all the non-grammars prioritise children with EHCPs.

Boxers and kickboxers, both female and male coming up ( very young, but won’t be surprised if in 5 years you see more).

Because it’s simply not true, people can be different but the idea that all asian parents are bullying their kids or their kids aren’t allowed to do sports or never go to parties is just not true. I’m asian, my kid does an hour of sport a day, my diary is packed full of birthdays and playdates. I’m not SE asian but the ones I know have been really keen on playdates etc. perhaps because my child is youger, we may be talking about a different cohort. My point is it’s not a factual statement.

I’m Asian too, I wanted to be a professional rugby player, that was fully supported and encouraged. Our children are Asian, they both do sports, our oldest wants to do a sport professionally and they both have far busier social lives than me.

My DDs were at school with msny Asian dc. Not one in a hockey team or playing tennis or football in the teams.. Obviously schools have sports but overall sports aren’t pushed and definitely not by some religions.

When you guys say Asian, are you referring to brown or asian?

Exactly this, there is no shortcut, hardwork, and sacrifice matter. It’s been my pleasure to give my DD the childhood my parents couldn’t afford, holidays, eating out, movies (something as small as popping out to the cinema wasn’t always within our reach), activities (whatever she wants to try I will find a way to pay for it, it’s been art classes recently). I love being able to say “yeah sure, you can try that, yeah sure buy that skirt, ski lessons? Go for it, it’ll be fun”. But it’s only through work and deferred gratification that was possible. Most of us actually do love our children, thats whats missing in this discussion, I deeply love my child, everything I do, every demand I place on her, every opportunity I give her is from a place of love.

If you don’t want to raise your child a particular way thats entirely up to you but the idea that we have to be abusive rather than just parents who pay attention is bollocks. If you think children only learn because they are forced with physical threat and coercion there is something wrong with your parenting style not mine. Either you want minorities to succeed and to contribute to our shared society or you just want someone to look down on. Either way apparently either asians are doing too much or too little.

I had to hyper schedule to get everything in at one point, the family diary is god in our home. I just think many of these people don’t actually know loads of asian people. A lot of activities my Dd does are not connected to school, this was a conscious decision to expand her social group. So someone from school may think we aren’t that involved but thats because we are busy outside of school.

No pain no gain.

I truly believe it, but the social services, dominated by white mentality, will take it as abusive and get involved in our family life and force us to de-pressurize and reduce our expectations by claiming hard work is emotionally harmful.

Because they have parents that don't value education in the as much as other cultures and probably broken homes

@deanstreet South Asian = brown eg Sri Lankans
I would say Asians are as above or indian etc. I would call Chinese people oriental to differentiate. I personally wouldn't call a person who is oriental, 'Asian'

Where I live in London, grammars are dominated by South Asians and Nigerians, both of which place a huge amount of focus on education. I was chatting to 2 Nigerian couples recently, both sets deeply religious, little or no screen time, absolutely no movies/tv, kids only study or play draughts/chess/all children so well behaved and go to exceptional independent schools. The white English parents in my independent school all but one are very chilled. Happy to just pay fees but dont push their kids at all, no real effort on homework, all have phones, all into Space NK. The difference is they are very wealthy, and the kids dont need to do well. If mum and dad live in a 10m pound house, you are sorted. Just the one English family are focused on education because both the parents drive this and as a result the children are extremely well spoken/work hard and are aiming for grammar/independent schools outside London.

Most Asians i know have children in independent schools. They would have tried grammar, but if they didnt make it, they throw everything they have to going private.

Some have the disposable cash but many others will give up everything to get them in. That's no holidays, maybe no cars, renting homes rather than buying. Certainly im guilty of it. I don't know whether its the right thing but everything I earn goes on school fees. We are in a predominantly white part of London and easily the poorest in class but one of the top attainers. My children are extremely driven. Its not necessarily me, its more that ive instilled in them that if they dont try, they will kick themselves if someone 'worse' than themselves gets ahead of them. So they have to give things their best shot.

Off the top of my head, the new privately educated Asians are moving into high finance. The generation before were doctors/dentists and accountants. I know people who barely speak English yet their kids work for Goldman Sachs.

With sports, I know a few exceptional Asian kids who are great at football and cricket. But its secondary to education for them, unless they aren't academic at all. You never see Asian footballers in the big leagues. I think the reason rugby isn't as popular is because loads of Asian mums are terrified their kids will get hurt so they discourage it.