Why white children are not getting into grammar schools

[deanstreet]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/11/why-white-children-are-not-getting-into-grammar-schools/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_fb_photo_not-getting-into-grammar-schools

I think UK needs better schools available to all talented children not more oversubscribed grammar schools.

Well, the n.e., which has less racial diversity than the rest of England, has a complete dearth of grammar schools.

Not in our leafy green county. Firmly white middle class parents who are privileged enough pay the overinflated house prices and the hothouse tutor to make absolutely certain that Oscar and Ottilie don’t have to brush up against the great unwashed and riff raff.

It’s so far removed now from the ideal of the 1950s system that really enriched the lives of poor with potential.

Ask yourself why it’s ’so competitive’ - it’s just a two tier state education now. Many pupils in ordinary secondary schools are losing their minds or refusing to go because it’s horrendous and a daily battle with disruptive behaviour and large classes because of underfunding and teacher shortages/disaffection. Meanwhile the more affluent and the pushy get their kids in to grammars and are actually getting an education. So they get the pick of the unis, the jobs and the system of privilege self perpetrates.

The middle class white parents in the areas where there are few white kids simply aren’t even having those schools on their radar even if they themselves are alumni. They are looking for a more multi cultural environment so either go for the partially selective grammar schools which are much more mixed, private or to the very good comps. It’s nothing to do with valuing education they want the same outcomes and will top up with tutoring rather than pit their kids in such a single focus environment

It’s very hypocritical to be annoyed that an unfair education system is fine if your child benefits but not if others get the benefit.

They shouldn't exist. It's outrageous. All children should get a decent education.

Very true of our area. The two state comps in our nearest town are both awful and undersubscribed, meanwhile there are literally a dozen or more school buses taking kids out of the town into the next couple of towns who have better comps and a couple of grammars. The two crap comps were crap when I was at school in the 80s and have never improved despite all kinds of initiatives and new management/heads. I pity anyone going to either school as they're really going to suffer bullying, disruption and crime. The "parents who care" ensure their kids get a school bus somewhere else - the ones who don't give a toss just let their kids go to the nearest even though they know (or should know) they're being thrown to the lions. It's a run down ex-seaside resort, so lots of social problems, unemployment and crime - mostly due to "non locals" being brought in from other areas to live in the squalid bedsits that used to be boarding houses. One of the schools was a high ranking grammar up to the 70s when it was converted into a comp!

All this really says to me is we need a strategy to ensure the best educational outcomes for the vast majority of chikdren who dont go to grammar school.

If grammar schools want to exist for a subset of bright children with highly motivated parents only, that's fine.

TBH I’m not really sure why we have had this mantra of ‘equal education for all’ for decades… yet grammar schools still exist, and only children in some areas have access to them. Ditto on access to religious schools funded by the state.

Why is it fine? They can pay for private if they are that motivated. I do agree we need to nurture the brightest, but grammar schools only nurture the privileged now; the ones that have the means to unlock the gates. What about those with potential who don’t have the means or the ‘highly motivated’ parents? Do we say ‘oh well tough shit for you…’?

@ghostyslovesheets

It is a problem because the non-whites are beating the whites in their own game.

I think the support given to dc can be overwhelming pushing though. Many white parents just won’t do this. It’s definitely cultural but lots of Asian dc do what their parents want and end up doing the degrees they are told to do. It’s something many white parents don’t do. That’s not yo say they don’t care, they are just not so intense.

My South Asian British garage owner was aghast dd was going to do MFLs at university. He thought she should do law. He gets on well with dh as dh is a civil and structural engineer. You can see why education matters. It’s career and status. DD became a barrister but certainly some parents do have parenting styles that are only about education with minimum sport or arts.

The Telegraph will be writing articles to support Reform and stirring “not fair” discontent. Poor!

Privileged? First gen migrants who came with nothing and had no choice but to be highly motivated.

No. Thats the exact opposite of what i said. I said we need to have a strategy for the vast majority of people not in grammar.

They can all gather in thier tiny subset of clever people with loads of support. Its not like they get any special funding, and special teachers or qualifications.

We can just focus the whole of the dfe policy on everyone else. All the initiatives and support where its needed.

Well, no surprises in that article the , despite the (deliberately, presumably) provocative headline.

There are some quite wild figures on this - some of the London grammars have 1 or 2 white children in each year.
The reality is… it’s because some communities really, really value education

Yes, but in the case of the one and two white pupil examples in that article, also because they happen to be in the most diverse place in the country. It’s not quite the same story at the East Kent grammars my DC attended. Although it would be true to say that their grammar schools were, by far, the most diverse schools in the area - which I always felt was a good thing.

It's not all about money.

Lots of ethnic minority parents are getting their kids into grammars by just spending time with them, encouraging a work/study ethic etc rather than paying for private tuition quite simply because they can't afford it.

We need to understand the difference in attitude as to why "white" parents don't have the same interest and provide the same encouragement and support to their kids.

They don't stop anyone else getting a decent education do they?

It's interesting how if S Asians do encourage their kids into the best education and high earning professsions, they are pushy and controlling, and if they don't, they are lazy benefit scroungers.

I'll take the pushy and controlling, thanks.

Not London generally, only 19 e.g
Kingston, Sutton, Wallington, otherwise it's Kent, Essex, Buckinghamshire and Berkshire (all Home Counties) and the reason why many families move out of London when their children are young.

They are not all dc of first generation immigrants. It’s definitely about the dc excelling in some subjects that get them high marks in the 11 plus. I live in an 11 plus county and of course the better off use tutors. We now have fsm places with a lower pass rate. Suits very academic parents who don’t see working for money as a priority! Often in family houses they have been given or inherited. Every single aspect can be manipulated. Even where dc live.

https://archive.ph/4N79F here you go

I think you raise a valid point. A lot of the non-white pupils at my (white) son's grammar do seem to work harder but also, and crucially, have parents that are very invested in education.

As white people are becoming a minority in several parts of the UK expect more focus on "white" issues in the same way their has been for black and Asians.

At school age white British children are a minority in multiple major cities now eg London Birmingham Manchester etc

I do wonder what the reaction would be if only a very few non white children were in a grammar school where the local population was overwhelmingly ethically diverse. I’m thinking of schools such as QE in Barnet. However it’s obvious that some particular minorities value education and are prepared to really push their children (and to pay for tutors).

I’m in London & it’s true the grammars don’t have a lot of white pupils & are incredibly competitive. A lot of my dcs classmates have been tutored for years in order to get a high pass & the tutoring schedule is intense. Not a route I was interested in going down.