My child is in constant trouble at school but good at home. What to do.

[Mumsytutu]

Hi there.
not sure where to start so here we go.
I have a 13 year old son, who is in constant trouble at school.
His usual issues are low level disruption, chatter (a lot) and the odd general boyish behaviour. Never anything untoward for eg: bullying, spiteful or the usual things you’d hate your teenager to be involved in.
At home, although there is the odd teenage attitude outburst, on the whole he is a joy to be around, well behaved, well mannered etc. He is very funny, personable, considerate and just a decent kid (to us, his friends parents, family etc) no one can ever understand why he’s in so much trouble at school.
We have a great relationship which I’m keen to preserve of course. He confides in me and is he’s very honest (too honest sometimes!!).
He will hold his hands up when he has deserved the sanction point.
He has a great friendship group, decent boys who are likeminded etc.
The school is one of the best in the area. They are strict, which I support. I think.
At first, in year 7, we came down on him like a ton of bricks everytime he received a ‘sanction behaviour point’. Over time this has stopped as he ended up in a right mess and felt he had nowhere to turn (stopped eating, extremely emotional at home, etc etc). After discussing by with the school we felt their punishments (detention etc) should be enough. (Considering there wasn’t ever any extreme behaviour like bullying etc).
fast forward to year 9 and he has all but completely written off school. He hates it and cannot wait to leave. He’s a bright lad so this breaks my heart.
His planned GCSE choices (which he is certain he will fail) all revolve around which teachers he gets on with.
Im bombarded with emails and calls from the school about how talkative he is (and from him in the toilets during the day, phones are banned but he texts and sends voice notes secretly telling me what’s going on, I do warn him if he looses his phone it’s his own fault, but equally I’m pleased he feels he can call mum).
He has been accused of being rude to staff on odd occasions, and when we discussed this at home it was because he was being accused of doing something he didn’t do and was frustrated (I investigated, he was telling the truth on all occasions, I even had to dig out his bank statements to send to the school on one occasion when he was accused of having a fizzy drink. He doesn’t like fizzy drinks for a start!!). We do talk about how to get your point accords respectfully however, no place for rudeness in my mind. He says he was just trying to tell them it wasn’t him etc and they wouldn’t listen.
Additionally, what we are finding is once he receives a sanction point in the week, he will spiral and it just gets worse from there.
Also, this is not in every subject, he can tell us ahead of time which subjects he will receive a sanction in at the start of the day and he is usually right (based on which teachers he has).
Im now at a point where I have told the school to stop contacting me unless he is rude/ bullying or if he is quiet (as that would be concerning!!)
I totally understand how ‘low level disruption’ is not fair on the other children, and we do discuss at home etc but im at a loss of what to do and this is so draining on us as parents, let alone him. He’s now starting to try and get out of school on the ‘bad days’ . He tried to tell me he was ill and I saw straight past him and he was then honest, he’s had enough of the constant sanctions and I can totally understand.
He has a detention every week (detentions are based on how many sanction points a child receives rather a specific events). As the school is 15 miles away, one of us then has to pick him up which is a nightmare (we both work full time).
We have spoken to him about this until we are blue in the face. I’ve told him just to be mute in certain subjects etc to get by.
i should also point out that he gets an incredible amount of positive points for his contributions to lessons and for his confidence etc. it’s not all bad!
i have emailed the school so I’m waiting to hear back but at the moment I’m thinking he would be best for everyone if he didn’t go to school on the ‘bad days’ which is ridiculous!! He’s always had excellent attendance so the fact in even thinking like this is shocking.
does anyone have any advice. I’m exhausted and so is he.
thanks so much.

Absolutely.

And also they are discriminating against him with all these sanctions. He doesn’t need a diagnosis for him to be considered to have a disability. And l think they are discriminating against him a lot.

Where are the adjustments? School sound like a bag of shite tbh.

Ask sch. to reorganise timetable so that all the bad teachers/lessons are on a fri., or at a stretch thurs afternoon & fri?

Thanks so much.
subjects we have serious issues with are mainly French and Maths. Last year we had big issues with science, but since a new teacher that has settled down.

French teacher is well known for their use of sanctions, has a reputation if you like (I’ve heard it many times from other parents and pupils in other years). He has had the same French teacher since yr7.
he has point blankly refused to consider French at GCSE because of this. His sanctions in this class came range from chatting to a removal. He walked into the class on Friday, was told ‘thanks for coming now get out’ he had no idea what he had done (chatting on the way in according to the teacher). This triggered a chain of events where he tried to contact me, was late to another lesson, Received another sanction etc etc etc.

Maths- tricky, again has a reputation for dishing out the sanctions. However, his maths teacher regularly talks to us and I believe is trying to help him. He has a love hate relationship with his maths teacher and I appreciate his maths teachers efforts and my son does also. But he will receive a sanction every lesson, usually for chatting.

other subjects are subjective to how the days going. If he’s had a bad lesson, we see more sanctions on that day. Especially if it was for something he’s deemed ‘unfair’ (he can get really defensive) He can spiral quite quickly until the whole day is a write off.
then comes the sanctions where he can’t do right for doing wrong. Where he has good intentions, but they back fire. I see his point and then I see why the teacher dished out the sanction. Then he gets really upset as he sees that as unfair. I have numerous examples where I literally slap my forehead and can see why he’s so upset, yet see why the teacher gave the sanction.

and then we have the accusations of him doing things that he will deny until he’s blue in the face. Then receive a sanction for doing it anyway and for arguing with the teacher . Then I have to become detective to try and support him/ find out what’s happened (on the understanding that if he found to be lying, I will unleash hell on him punishment wise. I would be furious) he tells me to continue as he isn’t lying.

Everytime, I have found him to be telling the truth. (pastoral have even got CCTV involved, then called me back with an apology as they had the wrong child).

and then there’s the sanctions that he holds his hands up to, says he was in the wrong and agrees he deserved it and apologises (to the teacher).

at the moment, he has a detention every week. I have honestly tried to put in place punishments at home re detentions it all back fired and he was scared to come home or would come home so emotional/ refuse to go school/ stopped eating. It was actually his pastoral lead (who he gets on with really well) that suggested we remove at home punishments.

I have also tried rewards for not getting detentions.

it’s a lot.
i have some great suggestions to try from these replies however, not only ADHD considerations but other ways to try and discipline him at home without it being so ‘big’ that it’s a problem for him to deal with. So we continue forward.
Thank you.

SLANT is the bloody devil. I achieved well in school, but wouldn't have cope under that type of regime, especially the eye tracking and posture bullshit. I'd have been an anxious wreck.

‘He can get very defensive’

RSD there. (Rejection sensitivity dysphoria)

I also don’t agree kids like this are worse in academic lessons. I used to teach DT and art. The freerer movement and less structure in these lessons can make kids like this worse.

I’ve never heard of this, but frantically googling all the the things people are suggesting. So thank you.

his favourite subjects are DT food (considering he’s a terrible eater he has found a love of cooking through this subject, never received a sanction). Drama, he’s exceptional, practises at home and loves it. Never received a sanction. Geography (teacher is fantastic with him, he wants to travel the world because of this teacher, cannot wait to have a lesson with this teacher). So we do have some positives, they are just lost amongst the negatives.

Thanks for your comment.

If he’s not doing French at GCSE, he could be removed from those classes and use them as decompression time.

They probs won’t let you though. Worth a try,

Yeah, and often they are trouble in other classes and delightful in DT. Less formality, more fun, more chance to interact.

He sounds lovely op. I used to love kids like him. They were always bloody lovely for me. But l was never in their face apart from H and S. Forgotten pen? What’s the big deal? When your juggling 500 pieces of equipment per lesson no pen seems kind of minor.Fidgety? Fiddle with making it work properly. Hope it works out.

If you are near S Yorks l can give you the name of a pyschiatrist who assessed and turned my dd around in 3 months. Good luck with him. He sounds lovey.

Your first post could be about my daughter. She’s got adhd and asd. It took a lot of working with the school and finding the right adjustments.

I'd never heard of SLANT so I looked it up, what is this rubbish?! How on earth is it a tool to 'teach like a champ' 😳

Good luck! I respect your willingness to take criticism on board.

When are the French lessons?
Could he stay home just those days/mornings?
I'd say to the school he's on the cusp of school refusal and as an adjustment you'd like him excuses from French for the time being to see if it improves his behaviour/attendance in general.

OP, the sensory issues (sitting next to the girl with BO) and the eating issues would have me wanting him screened for ASD.

In the short term, could you ask for detentions to be paused for him, while things are re-set, and get him a support person in school (you mention a mentor). He shouldn't be calling you so often.

And if your personality is sensitive, chatty and impulsive then you are totally screwed.

Hi,
Twice next week for French.
I'm going to speak with Pastoral Services to escalate this on Monday using some of the advice given here, this being one of them.
i think he needs an opportunity to re set and I wonder if removing this subject might help shift his mindset to be more positive thus helping in other subjects.
something by needs to change, this is just no good for anyone.
thanks for taking the time to offer advice, much appreciated.

Why shouldn’t he?

I think ADhds often need more parental support and lean on their parents more.

I haven't read the full thread, but are you sure he isn't just bored.
I know that sounds trivial but hear me out. I like your son was terrible in school, always in trouble always thrown out of lessons. Detention after detention, until I got expelled, because of a dispute with a teacher I asked to be removed from, but noone listened to me. I went on to a new secondary school who listened to me for the first time in my secondary school life. I was put in the wrong sets (at the time based on how smart you were) they assumed because I was "disruptive" it was because I was stupid. Far from it I needed to be more challenged, I completed a math text book in 2 weeks whilst the rest of the class were on page 30. I have no idea if I am ND, I probably am but like you said i was born in the 90's. I look back now and know it was because I wasn't given things to really test my knowledge I loved to learn still do about anything. But back then I was labelled the troubled kid who was too stupid to get good grades. So they put no effort in. Similar sort of teachers too I could tell you exactly who had an issue and 90% of the time it's that they used me for an example of what not to do.

Sounds like there is a lot going on and you say that they are well behaved at home then post about them not eating them you stopped the punishments, this isn’t good behaviour.
Have you taken them to the GP for a referral? Have you spoken to SENCO at the school?
Brace yourself as when they are assessed it will be spoken about that you need parenting lessons as you have enabled the behaviour to continue and can’t see that his behaviour at home was and is a major concern.
Good luck, hope you all get the help you need in order that they can reach their full potential.

Start with diet and high protein to bring his weight up. Anaemia, low weight etc can contribute to ADHD symptoms. Sometimes getting a child involved with planning and making their own packed lunch can help.

Then, social and emotional health. He needs friends at school and out of school and a hobby he can shine at. Either clubs at school or ideally something fresh air based. Forget the football. Sadly, at this age it can be difficult if they are smaller than average. And if he is already struggling socially (aka playing the clown) big team sports are challenging.

In parallel, get him assessed. Start with ADHD and also his IQ potential. He sounds very bright.

Try and get him back into reading and enjoying anything quiet time, like listening to music, puzzles. Start building up his quiet focus time. Try mindfulness and observing, self help books and mindful colouring. There is all sorts around, yoga works for some kids which you can do together. Some kids like making things, being outdoors.

The tip about thinking stuff in your head rather than saying it is important too. School should really give him a notebook to write stuff down instead of chatting. See the SENCO for wobble cushions all ADHD stuff they have, let him have a safe space to go to if he feels overwhelmed. He does not need a diagnosis for them to put in the right interventions.

He sounds like a genuinely kind and lovely lad who is struggling but will get there with the right interventions.

No this never happened. We were never told we needed parenting lessons.

It’s not a good fit move him. It’s ruining his relationship with learning

Also have you spoken to any other parents and those of his friends to see if they’re having similar experiences

Hello OP, your incredible son certainly sounds like he has ADHD. He sounds like he is parented in a warm, supportive, and encouraging home, where his strategies to manage his ADHD traits are hugely supported and accommodated and he - quite rightly! - isn't made to feel like a lesser person because of it. Great job you are doing!

My heart breaks reading what he's going through at school. Because it's so hard (impossible?) for ND people to try to become literally a square peg to fit into a round hole (is that the right saying?!). What he does need is support to work around. He's just not going to be able to mute himself in classes. He's just not. That's what ADHD is. A different brain make up that renders EXACTLY this type of thing as impossible as asking someone with a broken leg to do something they literally can't. And ADHD is permanent. He can learn to work around - like he does when he repeatedly tries to check times and plans and departures with you.

Also, school is like society. So, some people get it, some people try to get it, some people don't get it, and some people are only fixated on how the challenges of others affect them / their own children - and they aren't willing to step outside their own sphere and think about others needs and challenges. These people need to be acknowledged but kind of ignored in this sense, because your childs mental health is paramount.

It's a tough lesson to learn, but your son obviously is celebrated and seen positively by many teachers. I think you mentioned Geography, for example.

One step you could take as a family is literally to ignore the sanction points.

Just kind of grey rock them. And let it be less impactful for him. Literally, 'meh'. Meh to detentions. (unless of course they needed something). But I mean for the ones he has accrued for sanction points. That's literally penalising him for having a disabilty and it is CRUEL. But ... you sound like you are working with a school that has not yet grasped this, and need urgent measures for your son's welfare.

So stop caring about the sanction points. Literally breeze them off. Give them less heed. See them as tiresome and almost irrelevant. 'No need buddy to bother calling me about another one - unless of course you want to - just remember to tell me about the best point you picked up in that lesson. Remember the teacher is there to share their knowledge over to you, so make sure you pick up a bit off them, that's what I care most about."

And then go alllll out on the celebration stuff, and do extra attention only to the achievements. (You've already said he's honest if he messes up, so you really have a great kid there and you've obviously done a fantastic parenting job up to now. And don't have serious behaviour issues.)

One other thing I'd tentatively ask / suggest considering ... is there anything at all about your son that could make him stand out even more?

Because unfortunately, this is like a double whammy.

PM me if you like.

Hi,
thanks for your comments.
we stopped the punishments under the schools advice, pastoral were of the opinion he was being punished through school (detention) and further consequences at home were not good for anyone,
Until that point we had all sorts in place that were causing all sorts of additional problems. He ultimately needed our help and support not his phone removing (amongst other consequences).
He started to fear coming home because he’d been sanctioned for chatting, feared going to school in the first place in case he got a sanction. We had weekends of panic and dread. Extreme emotions, I had concerned grandparents trying to help and all sorts. This was mainly ahead of events, not afterwards. Our household was in a mess. He was sad. Not angry, no attitude, just sad and emotional.
We agreed to remove the at home punishments to simply lighten the load. It made no difference to his behaviour at school. It’s no worse than before. It stayed the same.
there was, and continues to be in place consequences if he receives a sanction for not completing his homework. That is completely within his control. He always does his homework on time and has never receive a sanction.
his refusal to eat was mainly at school, he would eat breakfast and nothing else during the day. At home we’re offering his favourite meals (spag bol for example, nothing crazy!) as we knew he hadn’t ate. He ate like a sparrow at home during this period, but he ate something. He didn’t ‘refuse’ to eat at home, he just couldn’t face it. Often just past it or ‘full’. It was one the the most worrying things I have ever faced as a parent. Short of force feeding him I was at a loss of what to do. Punishing him for not eating wasn’t really appropriate given the circumstances. I’m not sure removing his phone and grounding him for sanctions at school and refusal to eat spag Bol would have done anyone any good.
of course we visited the GP.
Senco is now on my list of things to discuss next week.
His behaviour at home and socially within our wider circle is fine, as I said, people are often shocked he gets into so much trouble at school as he’s (and I quote) such a good kid.

thanks for your comments.

Thanks so much for this.
we did talk about ignoring the sanctions and deleting the ‘big brother’ app. But equally, I didn’t want to be appear irresponsible. I have, until recently, really tried to support the school and him but we are (as you might be able to tell) at our wits end.
however, I have received some really constructive advice here so have made a lot of notes on how to move forward. I certainly feel a little better equipped for a conversation with the school than I did when I posted this morning.
i also feel I have some advice for further conversations with my son which is also great.

can you be a little more direct regarding your comments on him standing out? I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean in his appearance? If so, imagine a typical teenage boy with short floppy wavy hair and a smile. That’s him. (during the school holidays anyway).

thank you for your lovely words of positivity. Thanks so much.