My child is in constant trouble at school but good at home. What to do.

[Mumsytutu]

Hi there.
not sure where to start so here we go.
I have a 13 year old son, who is in constant trouble at school.
His usual issues are low level disruption, chatter (a lot) and the odd general boyish behaviour. Never anything untoward for eg: bullying, spiteful or the usual things you’d hate your teenager to be involved in.
At home, although there is the odd teenage attitude outburst, on the whole he is a joy to be around, well behaved, well mannered etc. He is very funny, personable, considerate and just a decent kid (to us, his friends parents, family etc) no one can ever understand why he’s in so much trouble at school.
We have a great relationship which I’m keen to preserve of course. He confides in me and is he’s very honest (too honest sometimes!!).
He will hold his hands up when he has deserved the sanction point.
He has a great friendship group, decent boys who are likeminded etc.
The school is one of the best in the area. They are strict, which I support. I think.
At first, in year 7, we came down on him like a ton of bricks everytime he received a ‘sanction behaviour point’. Over time this has stopped as he ended up in a right mess and felt he had nowhere to turn (stopped eating, extremely emotional at home, etc etc). After discussing by with the school we felt their punishments (detention etc) should be enough. (Considering there wasn’t ever any extreme behaviour like bullying etc).
fast forward to year 9 and he has all but completely written off school. He hates it and cannot wait to leave. He’s a bright lad so this breaks my heart.
His planned GCSE choices (which he is certain he will fail) all revolve around which teachers he gets on with.
Im bombarded with emails and calls from the school about how talkative he is (and from him in the toilets during the day, phones are banned but he texts and sends voice notes secretly telling me what’s going on, I do warn him if he looses his phone it’s his own fault, but equally I’m pleased he feels he can call mum).
He has been accused of being rude to staff on odd occasions, and when we discussed this at home it was because he was being accused of doing something he didn’t do and was frustrated (I investigated, he was telling the truth on all occasions, I even had to dig out his bank statements to send to the school on one occasion when he was accused of having a fizzy drink. He doesn’t like fizzy drinks for a start!!). We do talk about how to get your point accords respectfully however, no place for rudeness in my mind. He says he was just trying to tell them it wasn’t him etc and they wouldn’t listen.
Additionally, what we are finding is once he receives a sanction point in the week, he will spiral and it just gets worse from there.
Also, this is not in every subject, he can tell us ahead of time which subjects he will receive a sanction in at the start of the day and he is usually right (based on which teachers he has).
Im now at a point where I have told the school to stop contacting me unless he is rude/ bullying or if he is quiet (as that would be concerning!!)
I totally understand how ‘low level disruption’ is not fair on the other children, and we do discuss at home etc but im at a loss of what to do and this is so draining on us as parents, let alone him. He’s now starting to try and get out of school on the ‘bad days’ . He tried to tell me he was ill and I saw straight past him and he was then honest, he’s had enough of the constant sanctions and I can totally understand.
He has a detention every week (detentions are based on how many sanction points a child receives rather a specific events). As the school is 15 miles away, one of us then has to pick him up which is a nightmare (we both work full time).
We have spoken to him about this until we are blue in the face. I’ve told him just to be mute in certain subjects etc to get by.
i should also point out that he gets an incredible amount of positive points for his contributions to lessons and for his confidence etc. it’s not all bad!
i have emailed the school so I’m waiting to hear back but at the moment I’m thinking he would be best for everyone if he didn’t go to school on the ‘bad days’ which is ridiculous!! He’s always had excellent attendance so the fact in even thinking like this is shocking.
does anyone have any advice. I’m exhausted and so is he.
thanks so much.

If he really cannot help himself and behave at school then you need to consider assessment for additional needs. There is something else going on here.

and this is likely the wrong school for him. Look urgently into a move and an assessment with an Ed psychologist and an optometrist (to check his eyes are doing what they should). Urgently given proximity to GCSEs.
his current school are letting him down if they have not reviewed his behaviour with you and suggested an assessment.

or. He is just a dick. Who will grow up into being one of those dicks you meet in life whose mother thinks they are amazing and all other women cannot stand being in a lift with. If you don’t want this then you need to seriously reflect on his behaviour at home too.
ie is he really ok at home?
why is he calling you from the toilets at school?
Why did he stop eating?
Why has he stopped playing with his football team?
is he the class clown to cover up the fact he has no idea what’s going on?
can he read?
what is his working memory and processing speed like?
everything you say is a MASSIVE RED FLAG 🚩 to unmet additional needs.

(I am a mother with 2 SEN kids. Both bright. Need support to reach their potential. Would do Badly in a strict school. Need loads of coaching and pastoral care and small classes)

you have got this but you need to move and you need to move now. Find someone to assess him. Check other school options. Consider private if you can stretch to it for GCSEs. beg grandparents to help financially if they can.

he is going off the rails otherwise. And why would you allow him to fail GCSEs if you can intervene now? In the meantime his self esteem is taking a battering and he is crying out for help. (13yo boys do not ring mummy from the toilets during the school day for no reason)

best of luck. You’ve got this.

This^.
OP Your SENco should already be involved. If they are not then they are letting your kid down. If the SENco is involved and not done what Rufus has outlined, they are letting him down
you need to get him outta there asap. Ie do not let him finish the academic year at this school if you can help it. It’s an important year.

It’s not very clear to me whether he knows what he is doing in school isn’t ok.
it sounds as though he is turning things in on himself, if he is refusing to eat. That is quite a loud cry for help. I think secondary schools don’t work for so many children.
I think you need to maintain a strong relationship with him, but maybe focus on your boundaries. Being chatty is obviously something you are proud of, but boundaries will be about when it’s ok. I’d also suggest you make a referral to the school counsellor (there usually is one) or if you can, find a private therapist. They might be able to explore with him what’s going on. Too many people assume ADHD, and it could be anything.
good luck

Hi. Err thanks.
i investigated like a mad women (as yes it was ridiculous) as he told me he didn’t have a fizzy drink when he was accused in having one. Many times. Promised me.
he got himself into a huge mess over it.
he doesn’t like fizzy drinks, we don’t have them at home.
He didn’t buy one that week from a shop as I went through his statements to prove this one way or another.
none purchased through school, I I get his meal choices sent to me.
only option, someone gave him one.
He argued until he was blue in the face.
turns out, he had flavoured water (easily confused with a fizzy drinks bottle)
pastoral got involved.
these sanction points triggered a detention.
maybe that might help you understand why I’m trying to remain objective here.

But if he hasn’t been eating it was in two settings? Also the dread of going to school?

This sounds like adhd. They can often only cope in certain situations. Others can wind them up.

My dd had ADHD ( very quiet) couldn’t cope with super strict or rigid teachers. Ended up school refusing. Was fine with flexible staff.

Sounds like my son. Shouted out answers (hand was up, but couldn’t wait), chatting, giggling if one of his mates did something funny…

When pulled up, he’d argue his case because there had been no ill intent, so he couldn’t understand what he’d done wrong.

Drove me (and his teachers) batty.

ADHD.

I have a Ds who was like this at school, he is 18 now. He was eventually diagnosed with ADHD,ASD and Dyslexia. He was lovely at home and I never had any problems with him because I treated him like a human being and spoke to him in a respectful way. I was called in at least once a week to school, never for violent or nasty stuff though.

I decided that I would never punish him at home for anything that happened at school, home would be his safe place, we would talk through issues he was having and discuss strategies on how he could have handled situations better. I never put any pressure on him about exams because he was just trying to survive school. Quite honestly some teachers were awful in the way they spoke to pupils and they wouldn't speak to adults the same way. We just concentrated on getting him through school.

The outcome is a fantastic human being who has got himself a job where everyone loves him because he is kind and helpful and he doesn't mess about, because most of the time people treat him with respect and as he says money is a great motivator.

Our relationship is good and strong because he says that whatever happened he always knew I had his back. Don't get me wrong though he had boundaries and rules, I just don't believe punishment works.

@Mumsytutu What does he want to talk to you about from school? He missed part of a lesson to go to reception, so is it impulse? Why does he need his mum? Why can’t he talk to his friends like everyone else? He knew what the outcome would be. Looks like brinkmanship to me. My DN used to do this. Liked the attention and definitely didn’t have sen. Just thought he was funny and the class laughed. Teachers thought he was a pita. He underperformed in exams by a long way.

Why does he need his mum?

Im 62, mines been dead 20 years. I still need her.
Ds is 31, he still comes to me with problems.

Isnt maintaining a relationship with your teen ds a good thing…… ?

Underperforming is typical undiagnosed adhd.

His Mentor sat in on one of his lessons and said at times he didn’t appear to even be aware he was chatting.
She was genuinely serious. He also talks at the speed of light and misses instructions. Even though he appeared to be listening.

he doesn’t this at home. I tell him we’re leaving in five minutes for example, 2 minutes later he asks what time we are leaving. I tell him I just told him and then he stops, thinks, and says ‘oh yeah’ sorry.

he works better at the back of the class so he can see what’s going on, if he sits at the front he gets sanctions for turning around.
He knows this, tells the teachers it would be better, but a number of them think he just wants to mess about at the back.

pastoral do get involved to try and tell him.

why can’t he just be shy and quiet. 😔

I think part of the problem is that the school behaviour management system isn’t working. He knows where he’ll be sanctioned, knows he’ll end up in detention and it’s not deterring him. Either it’s behaviour he can’t control (ADHD or something) or he just doesn’t care. The latter seems unlikely given how distressed he is at home over it, which leaves the former. The problem is the school are dealing with the behaviour and doubling down on discipline which creates a vicious circle.

Can you talk to the school about potential additional support needs, build in some wiggle room for him so the cycle of behaviour, discipline, anxiety, behaviour is broken. I know with my DD some teachers find her charming, others think she’s a pain in the arse all because of the way her complex needs present. She has little control over that, but we’ve found ways for her to cope in classes with teachers who don’t “get” her.

This is totally what I’m thinking, thank you.
Appreciate you taking the time to comment.

The more you say, the more it sounds like the 'something else going on' category.

It’s ADHD specific traits that need to be seen in two settings to meet the DSM criteria. Restricted eating and not wanting to go into school are definitely indicative of an unmet need, though not necessarily ADHD. That’s why I said they should rule out other issues first.

Adhd can cause overwhelm.

He can listen at home because it’s only you and it’s quiet.

At school his busy brain is overwhelmed with noise, lights, other people. This is why he’s missing instructions.

l think school have been pretty crap at picking this up.

@Mumsytutu the more I read of your answers I more I agree there is a problem (I am a teacher)
If it’s ADHD there is a lot they can do and he will struggle to regulate himself and his behaviour.
We do ‘soft starts’ for example (they go in later when the lesson is up and running and a mentor/ behaviour lead/ TA would explain expectations and starter). It just a calmer more focused start to a lesson they find difficult.
Honestly it’s fixable it just needs looking into. One of my sons had issues as he couldn’t hear properly. He was loud, had switched off so had forgotten how to follow instructions and was easily distracted. That wasn’t picked up until year 8/9!!

OP I was in this exact position. I worried about missing SEN etc. There were a couple of teachers in particular who were really picky on him and TBH having met them I found them really difficult to warm to!

As it happened, my DS got to the point of dropping subjects for his options and suddenly settled down and I'm not as worried any more. He was no longer doing subjects he found boring, and had different teachers - the two who really didn't like him were no longer teaching his groups.

I don't have advice but just wanted to give an alternate view.

It was really scary when he stopped eating. He’s always been a fussy eater but has always ate well albeit a limited menu.
he's very small for his age (age 10 clothing). I always think that ever helps his cause, small cheeky chap etc.
So when he stopped eating we of course visited the GP who weighed him etc and gave him a talking to.
nothing really helped other than we heaped on his favourite foods at home to get him to have anything. He missed quite a bit of school as he was so tired, pale, looked awful and so thin.
we investigated a stress related ED with the GP who wanted to monitor it.
thankfully, this started in May so just before the summer holidays. Once school stopped, he started eating again and so far has been ok this year.
Thanks for your comment.

I feel for you. Regardless of my son, I don’t know how anyone can be a teacher. Hats off to you.

Do you have any advice on how I help him settle down? Any tricks that have worked with your talkative students?

At the start of the year he had a plan that he was going to be mute for all the new teachers he had. Once they knew he was a good kid he would then be himself (oh god!!). He practised his plan at home. It lasted 3 days at school before the sanctions came rolling in. Albeit from mainly 3 subjects.

thanks for your comment. Appreciate you taking the time.

Move schools? It’s not too late if he hasn’t properly started his GCSEs yet.
The school just doesn’t sound right for him, too strict about meaningless things.
He sounds like a great boy but needs to be in an environment he can thrive rather than be crushed

We’ve talked about this. The other options are limited.
we have a secondary school near our village but it has an awful reputation, bullying etc etc. people tend to move their children from there to his current school.

we've discussed private education (we could just about do it financially with huge sacrifices, which we are prepared to make) but I’m not convinced it’s going to solve the problem. In fact, I worry it will be worse.

this is so hard. Thanks for your comment x

I feel for you- it's very difficult. On the converse side, my very quiet daughter has lessons at she really, really hates because there are students like your son.

She just wants to get on with it and in the lessons she just says "Mum, it's turned into the 'John' show again." By this she means that he takes all the attention of the teacher, distracts other kids etc. There are topics that she really enjoys and she wants to learn more about- but can't. When he is off school, they get loads of work done- but he's rarely so badly behaved that he gets kicked out. So actually, from my point of view, I think the school needs to support or at least implement something different for your son. It's not working for him and it certainly isn't working for the class as a whole.

This reads as a typo - he does this at home?

In which case there's your ADHD traits in a second environment.

I'm going to agree with pp, it sounds like ADHD to me. He is overwhelmed and not self managing. You will need to have a meeting with the SENDCO at the school, and also the pastoral head.
There needs to be a strategy from the school moving forward. Perhaps DS can express what would help him to learn better? Additional needs often seem to me to hit boys badly in yr9. I've seen many, many cases where support and management has been incredibly successful, so take heart.
I hope you get some answers.