My child is in constant trouble at school but good at home. What to do.

[Mumsytutu]

Hi there.
not sure where to start so here we go.
I have a 13 year old son, who is in constant trouble at school.
His usual issues are low level disruption, chatter (a lot) and the odd general boyish behaviour. Never anything untoward for eg: bullying, spiteful or the usual things you’d hate your teenager to be involved in.
At home, although there is the odd teenage attitude outburst, on the whole he is a joy to be around, well behaved, well mannered etc. He is very funny, personable, considerate and just a decent kid (to us, his friends parents, family etc) no one can ever understand why he’s in so much trouble at school.
We have a great relationship which I’m keen to preserve of course. He confides in me and is he’s very honest (too honest sometimes!!).
He will hold his hands up when he has deserved the sanction point.
He has a great friendship group, decent boys who are likeminded etc.
The school is one of the best in the area. They are strict, which I support. I think.
At first, in year 7, we came down on him like a ton of bricks everytime he received a ‘sanction behaviour point’. Over time this has stopped as he ended up in a right mess and felt he had nowhere to turn (stopped eating, extremely emotional at home, etc etc). After discussing by with the school we felt their punishments (detention etc) should be enough. (Considering there wasn’t ever any extreme behaviour like bullying etc).
fast forward to year 9 and he has all but completely written off school. He hates it and cannot wait to leave. He’s a bright lad so this breaks my heart.
His planned GCSE choices (which he is certain he will fail) all revolve around which teachers he gets on with.
Im bombarded with emails and calls from the school about how talkative he is (and from him in the toilets during the day, phones are banned but he texts and sends voice notes secretly telling me what’s going on, I do warn him if he looses his phone it’s his own fault, but equally I’m pleased he feels he can call mum).
He has been accused of being rude to staff on odd occasions, and when we discussed this at home it was because he was being accused of doing something he didn’t do and was frustrated (I investigated, he was telling the truth on all occasions, I even had to dig out his bank statements to send to the school on one occasion when he was accused of having a fizzy drink. He doesn’t like fizzy drinks for a start!!). We do talk about how to get your point accords respectfully however, no place for rudeness in my mind. He says he was just trying to tell them it wasn’t him etc and they wouldn’t listen.
Additionally, what we are finding is once he receives a sanction point in the week, he will spiral and it just gets worse from there.
Also, this is not in every subject, he can tell us ahead of time which subjects he will receive a sanction in at the start of the day and he is usually right (based on which teachers he has).
Im now at a point where I have told the school to stop contacting me unless he is rude/ bullying or if he is quiet (as that would be concerning!!)
I totally understand how ‘low level disruption’ is not fair on the other children, and we do discuss at home etc but im at a loss of what to do and this is so draining on us as parents, let alone him. He’s now starting to try and get out of school on the ‘bad days’ . He tried to tell me he was ill and I saw straight past him and he was then honest, he’s had enough of the constant sanctions and I can totally understand.
He has a detention every week (detentions are based on how many sanction points a child receives rather a specific events). As the school is 15 miles away, one of us then has to pick him up which is a nightmare (we both work full time).
We have spoken to him about this until we are blue in the face. I’ve told him just to be mute in certain subjects etc to get by.
i should also point out that he gets an incredible amount of positive points for his contributions to lessons and for his confidence etc. it’s not all bad!
i have emailed the school so I’m waiting to hear back but at the moment I’m thinking he would be best for everyone if he didn’t go to school on the ‘bad days’ which is ridiculous!! He’s always had excellent attendance so the fact in even thinking like this is shocking.
does anyone have any advice. I’m exhausted and so is he.
thanks so much.

I would change school. There is a school local to us which is like that with the silence and detentions over every little thing, our DC would follow the rules but we avoided it because the general environment seemed unpleasant.
Her secondary school seems to actually have less disruption because of less extreme sanctions, I think some schools bring it on themselves as if you make rules too extreme teenagers will push back and resent it seeming unfair.

A fresh start would probably be best for resolving his feelings of resentment towards teachers, teachers pre-judging and expecting/looking for him to get in trouble, and break the cycle if he's messing around with certain other teenagers. But I would view different schools and see if there's ones which expect good behaviour but don't put extreme sanctions like "talk once and you're marked up" etc and prioritise that when deciding.

The more you post the more this is screaming adhd to me.

dunno what nhs services are like for teens any more but for adults they basically don’t exist certainly around here.

meds helped my daughter massively.

there are also quite a few adhd coaches - she was able to access one through uni but they’ve been helpful post uni as well.

this is adhd.

the anxiety is also classic. Medication will help with that as well.

which subjects does he have problems with?

Don’t move schools.

If he is ADHD, and as an ex teacher and parent of 2 ADHDers I think he is, he could easily struggle with the transition.

This was one of my sons, he was just coping until a new head teacher completely changed the ethos of the school. Every small misdemeanor was punished - right down having the wrong colour pen in their pencil case (even if it wasn't needed that day). They had to sit a certain way, place their bags and coats a certain way, he couldn't keep his shirt tucked in. Worse still were the whole class punishments, he has fierce sense of injustice and just couldn't take being punished for something he didn't do, so became argumentative in class.
His GCSE year was a shit show, we ended up keeping him at home as he was self harming, he mainly failed his exams (with the exception of 2 9s 🤦)
He became a different child at college and went on to uni. He's always been quirky, but no diagnosis and he was always my easiest child at home by a country mile.
TLDR: Not all children fit all schools.

Screams ADHD.
Anyone else in your family with it?

Sorry, more comments:

students like this often do better with less strict teachers/schools. They find it very very hard to shut up and pay attention and if the teacher can basically stick them at the back and ignore them it usually settles as they stop being so anxious about the class which reduces the adhd behaviour etc etc.

the issue is that if the teacher thinks he is a “bad” kid rather than a “can’t shut up” kid they won’t want to put him there because he’ll cause problems.

usual solutions are:

sit on own (some kids will yell to get conversation and feedback though)
sit at back on own/with child who won’t respond
give doodle book/fiddle toy (must be silent)

change class to more adhd friendly teacher (more important than being in right group for ability)

If you can afford private school your money would be better spent getting a private screening.

We avoided the big chains and chose a private pyschiatrist who practised independently. Dd was diagnosed and started on meds very quickly. Game changer.

The waits for nhs are 5 years round us.

School refuser now at Russell group uni 3 years after dropping out of school.

Wheresbouts are you?

I absolutely hear you, I would feel completely the same way. I feel for your daughter I honestly do.

please know that Johns mum is possibly feeling the same way as me as is really trying.

Im emailing the school today for a meeting. We’ve all had enough, including the other children I’m sure.

I get it. But from my side, it’s starting to feel that he’s not worthy of an education because of how he is. Weirdly, if he was quiet or mute I think I’d be really worried.

thank you x

I’d move him to another school if you can. Combined with some SENCO support and assessment. It sounds like he’s dug himself into a hole with a number of teachers who are evidently fed up to the back teeth with his interruptions and inability to listen, behave and be quiet. You need support to get to the root cause of that inability but also a fresh start elsewhere might be helpful.

I get it- but if the school keep doing exactly the same thing, they will get exactly the same results. Which benefits no-one; you, your son, teachers or other children. They should be able to call on resources/experience/senco to come up with some sort of solution other than punishment. He deserves a decent education just like everyone else. Is it an option that doesn't take as many GCSE's to be able to focus on the ones he might need for the future?

This is exactly why I think we’re all exhausted. I’m going to raise this with the school.
there must be another way to sort this.
Thanks again x

As I said upthread, there are many strategies that the school can put in place. Usually, they have a very positive impact. Just make sure that you're in a meeting with the SENDCO and the pastoral head

Of course people need their Mums.
My daughter at university in a different country calls me every day.
My mum has been dead for nearly 30 years, I would love to talk to her.

The question is why does he need her at 1:40 on a Tuesday afternoon when he should be in Maths class and he will see her that afternoon?

Yes, sorry- he does exactly that at home. I just assume he’s not listening, distracted etc.
Happens a lot. I get him to repeat instructions back to me when it’s important (for example, he was being collected by his friends parents at a specific time so I needed him to be ready. I was heading out taking his sibling to her activity so he needed to be ready independent of my constant reminders).
he was ready on time, all was well.
He is very time conscious when it’s routine etc. He leaves on time every morning without reminders as he needs to get the bus.
he hates being late and will often go through the plans with me if something adhoc is happening. Even though I’ve told him the plans 3 times, he wonders back in to re-cap on what’s happening.
drives his dad nuts!!

There seems to be a movement towards a much stricter environment at many state secondaries. Unfortunately this really doesn't suit some children. That's also a long journey to school what time does he have to get up in the morning? I would seriously be considering a school move in addition to the ADHD screening.

I can see this from both sides - I am a secondary school teacher and a mum of a child like this. I think the whole school set up for boys your son's age is all wrong- they are bored, demoralised and can't see the point. They need more practical subjects, movement and interesting content. It doesn't solve your problem but keep talking - emphasise that school is the means to get to the next step. Talk about jobs, careers, courses for later on. If it makes you feel better, lots of these boys change in year 10, they grow up a bit!

I love this comment!
I wondered exactly this if he was just a dick. But he’s not. He’s a good kid.
examples include-
-would not go trick or treating with his teenage friends as it would be intimidating to others seeing a group his age (we have elderly neighbours who he helps out with stuff a lot).
-got into a heap of trouble at school one day for asking to be moved seats. But would not explain why to anyone. Refused to talk about it. Teacher sent him out for not explaining himself. Turns out, the girl he say next to had a BO issue but he refused to tell anyone out of respect for the girl. He explained to me once he was home. I called school to explain the issue- he felt awful. I was quite proud of him for this one. Would have been easier to tell everyone why, but he chose not to.
the list goes on, he is a good egg.
not firm- not a dick, can definitely be a dick at times!!

is he ok. Well no, not really at the moment as school is getting ‘a lot’.
His football situation is complicated, let’s just say there is only so many times you can be told you are playing shit before you believe it and give up.

he usually calls me/ voice notes me from school when something has happened he feels is unfair re sanctions (getting in there first) Or the other day he sent a voice note to let me know a bird had shat on his head. I get all sorts. Sometimes it’s because somethings happened with kids not being nice (unusual, but it happens). Not every day, but he reaches out a lot. In the toilets, usually via voice note.
if it’s serious he will go to student reception.

reading is exceptional. He used to want to be a writer, read all the time. He hasn’t picked up a book since secondary school.

all comments taken onboard, thank you. But not a dick 🤣. I almost wish he was then I could lay down the law more at home!!

Not diagnosed. I often wonder myself if I am undiagnosed. i grew up in the 90’s- we just got on with it. I miss those times!!

Thanks for this. I was hoping to hear from some teachers.
Appriciate your comment. Thank you.

It is strict. They get a sanction for poor posture.
if the teacher is talking their pen must be down. It’s a lot.
do I agree, I agree the need to do something as I understand how out of control it can get. But seeing it, it hard to watch.
he gets up at 6:30 (bus as 7:30). Most nights he’s asleep by 8:30 as he doesn’t do tired well.
thanks.

My son was like this until aged 14 when I took him to a careers fair. I was at end of my tether nagging about school. He sulked around the careers fair until he noticed something he was interested in (airforce). He now has a goal to work towards. His school behaviour and study ethic just switched. Maybe we were lucky but something similar could be worth a try. He admits now he mucked around because he didn't see the point in school.

Usually he contacts me inbetween lessons or breaks.
Friday was unusual in that it was just before a lesson. But he’d reached a point. He wanted to come home. He was trying to contact me to collect him (I wouldn’t, I never have, he knows that. He was trying to tell me he’d reached his limit). He’d had a terrible day and week. Sometimes he just needs me to tell him to pull his socks up and crack on. Which he did.
and then received a sanction.
which he deserved. He was late.
he also needs a break.

Poor kid. School is just not suitable for all children and of course I do also feel for the other children and teachers who are disrupted.

My son also goes to a school where they are sanctioned for looking around, slouching, not eye tracking the teacher and even he (no additional needs) says sometimes he puts so much effort into remembering and following all the behaviour acronyms that he forgets to actually listen to the lesson content 🙄

Imagine having to go somewhere every day where everything you do just gets negative feedback, whether you can help it or not. Your very being and personality is a problem.

I agree with previous poster's who suggested SENCO involvement but also do you think he would benefit from private tutoring? I remember at school a lot of kids caused disruption due to embarrassment of not understanding the lessons. With 30 kids in each classes, teachers cannot help every child in the way they need. Inevitably some kids fall behind and cause disruption due to embarrassment. Private tutoring may help in subjects he enjoys but is behind on.

Is he an only child?
I have a very able DS with ADHD. School has been a challenge to put it mildly with lots of similarities to what you describe (constant low level trouble, nothing vindictive/serious, endless detentions for disruption in class, calling out, toe tapping, humming etc and forgetting equipment, huge variation in his response to different teachers). Diagnosis helped as (some) teachers adapted their teaching style, he went on meds - we also stressed the importance of good behaviour/boundaries as SEN isn’t an excuse. He did GCSEs in the summer and did v well, though there are still bumps along the way in sixth form.
I asked if yours is an only child as DS is sweetness and light at home unless competing with his siblings!