Please do encourage your non-native speaker DC to take MFL for A level if that’s what they would like

[clary]

MFL is my subject – I studied MFL at A level and university, taught MFL at secondary and now tutor and conduct speaking assessments. This isn’t an ad! – just to show I have some knowledge.

Take-up of MFL at GCSE and very much at A level is sadly (my view) diminishing. There are a number of reasons – it’s seen as difficult or not needed, big focus on STEM (which I am not against FWIW).

One suggested reason is because of all the native speakers who will make it much harder to gain a higher grade (esp at A level). I wanted to help people to see that it’s not an issue, and that if their DC is keen on French or German or Spanish or any other language, they should (please) pursue it in some way, whether that’s qualifications or some independent method (Duolingo, travel, online class).

People worry that grade boundaries are unfairly pushed up by the numbers of native speakers, making it impossible for a non-native to get a good grade. But in fact there is no need to be of native speaker standard to gain a top grade – which the AQA spec clearly states. If you get the marks – and they are there to be got – you’ll get the grade. The GCSE and A level exam are not targeted at the high end of a native speaker ability. It’s not easy, you’ll need to work, but what’s the issue with that?

And are the GBs pushed up? Pretty sure they are not. Polish GCSE, for example, which surely is sat in virtually every case by a native speaker – AQA GCSE GBs for a 9-8-7 last year – 196/173/150; GBs for French (mostly not sat by natives) 195/172/150; Spanish (ditto) 195/170/145. Very very similar. More than 80% of those taking Polish GCSE get a grade 7+ – but you can see, that has not affected the GBs. Nor should it IMHO.

And looking at A level, where German is taken by so few students that the % of native speakers must be higher than for French or Spanish (both taken by three times as many) – GBs for A-star and A, 351/304; French 358/325; Spanish 344/303. A higher mark needed to get a top grade in French, not German, even tho the % of natives in French will be lower.

A colleague said to me last year that their DS was in an A level class with a French native speaker – “of course that was a nightmare as he couldn’t do as well as her” – firstly it’s not a contest – you can both get an A-star! Secondly it can be a massive benefit. I had a friend in my A level French class who was amazing at vocab. She was an asset in class and my colleague’s DC's classmate could be too. Ask them vocab, learn the latest idiom from them, they will have interesting views on the social and political issues you need to discuss. It really is a positive.

Also I want to stress that despite what some ppl believe, being a native speaker is not a shoo-in for an A star at A level. For sure it is a help, I would be foolish to deny that. But I have seen native speakers in speaking assessments who have clearly thought they just need to rock up and boom! top grade. They have presented a woefully inadequate IRP form, and not done their homework on the topics. I had a native speaker candidate last year was emphatic that she didn’t need to have read a book or watched a film, as no one had told her about that element of the exam. These students will not get A stars.

I tell you who will tho – a student (native or not) who has worked hard, researched their IRP topic, learned some good vocab, stats and current views on the 12 topics; a student who has learned how to do to do well in the written exams, including summaries (often the downfall of a native speaker IME) and translation tasks; a student who has read the book, watched the film, read around both and acquired the necessary vocab and structures to write cogently about the themes therein. All of that is available to both native and non-native speakers. Some of the very best candidates I have seen in speaking assessments have been native speakers who had clearly done lots and lots of work, and some of the other best have been non-native, who ditto.

All that said – I really don’t advise A level MFL without a strong grounding in vocab and grammar – which usually equates (other factors aside) to a grade 7 at GCSE.

Anyway what a long post! sorry! but I am interested in others’ views and experiences.

Great thread! French A Level is one of the options my DS2 is considering. I did languages myself and I'm half French. So I'm a native speaker and there's a big gap between speaking it and understanding the grammar.

He's autistic and nearly didn't get to do a language at all as he missed SATS due to Covid and the secondary school were going to put him in the lowest English set. I fought for him to go in the set that did 1 language and for it to be French. He was in the bottom set in years 7, 8 and 9 but wanted to do it at GCSE and the Senco was supportive in him being allowed to do it. It was a steep learning curve but he got a 6 in his year 10 mocks and so should be able to get a 7 next year. We watch a French film a fortnight, quite a few on Prime as well as Netflix. Not found any on Iplayer. Some we've just bought the DVD (Cyrano, Jean de Florette).

The local sixth form only asks for a 5 (!) and when we visited told us its a small class with numbers declining. When telling us about the book, said 'don't worry there's a film too if you don't like reading.' Which I found extremely depressing. Ds2 loves reading. And loves French too.

And no-one was impressed by a language degree last century, and I'm glad I didn't stay in translation and got a more generalist job.

Shocked at a sixth form accepting a 5 at MFL for A level. I recall years ago we accepted a very keen student with a C grade and that was a very bad idea as it turned out. They did not continue with the A level for very long. But yay a 7 would be good.

I suggest vocab revision now in prep for next summer as a good way to give a strong foundation.

It's a side point really, but as a life long bookworm it has been eye opening to parent a child with dyslexia. It's not "depressing" that she doesn't like reading. It's a facet of her learning difficulties. She's a fascinating and thoughtful child and give her an audio book or a podcast or film and she will absorb all the nuances.

I doubt she will choose languages as learning English is struggle enough. But I would see it as a sign of a good teacher than children learn in different ways.

No offense intended @OnlyFangs . I have relatives with dyslexia. I meant that reading in general is seen as unusual. But that has given me the idea that I could try and get audio versions of the French books too.

Yes I agree @clary . My mum taught French to A Level and always said a C is too low. She doesn't think his French is good enough for A Level to be honest but at the moment it's his best subject and he has no interest in the vocational options. His vocabulary is brilliant, reading and listening are his strengths. Grammar is where there are gaps.

I wasn't offended. It's more that I have realised it makes no sense to see it as sad or terrible that some people don't enjoy reading when there are so many other mediums they might enjoy. Whether that's documentaries or audiobooks or plays and films.

Yes, I'm from Eastern Europe, but grew up in Germany where languages are taken very seriously and taught very well in schools in my experience. I don't know at what stage employers look at languages, but I was specifically employed for my foreign language skills the past 6 jobs (I mostly work on large cross-border litigation projects). I am fluent in those languages though.

Film adaptations of classic novels are so rarely accurate (or sometimes even remotely similar to the book) though.

As a native Russian-speaker, I have already resigned myself to the fact that my daughter will never read War and Peace for example. However, almost all of the film adaptations are truly awful. The closest one to the novel is the Russian 1966 series, but the casting for some of the roles makes it unwatchable (like Helene who from memory was 16 at the start of the novel being played by the director's wife who's in her 50's or 20-year-old Piere being played by the director who again is well in his 50's etc etc). Some versions I have seen are truly unwatchable - shockingly so. I'm currently showing my daughter the Audrey Hepburn/Mel Ferrer/Henry Fonda version of 1957, as although it misses out huge parts of the novel, at least the casting is wonderful.

@XelaM I quite enjoyed the BBC adaptation from 2016.

Agree Helene & Pierre in their 50s is just wrong!

My favourite Russian film director is Tarkovsky!

I haven't seen that one, but there was one recent (possibly German?) adaptation which was truly unwatchable. It started with the (in the novel) 13-year-old Natasha throwing herself at the (very married) Prince Andrey who inexplicably appears at her birthday party calling him her "dream man" and doesn't get any better from there. 😂 I had to switch off when Helene started dancing with Tsar Alexander at the Winter Palace. The narrator was also reading from a very large book, but I don't think the text was Tolstoy 🤣

Agreed, I loved the 2016 BBC War & Peace adaptation. Complete tangent, but also enjoyed rewatching the Forsythe Saga. Lily James and James Norton in former and Damian Lewis and Gina McKee for latter. Superb acting. If the main characters are really fleshed out it makes all the difference.

My 11 year old loves all things Russian but his grammar school only teaches French, German, Spanish and Latin. So French and German it will be at GCSE and Russian would have to be a hobby.
My Lower Sixth did two languages at GCSE and did very well not least because of watching Disney Plus. We also do travel to Europe a fair bit, I do think these things make a big difference. A lot of parents cannot afford the travel or the trips, but I think the stuff online these days is pretty good. If you cannot do real life immersion, then you have to do cultural immersion.
My 11 year old is a massive fan of French comics for example. Still reading in English but I am hoping he will get to TinTin in French etc and Asterix and Obelix in due course.

@Araminta1003 If your son loves Russian/Russian history has he seen "The Last Csars" on Netflix about the Romanovs? I can highly recommend it. It's surprisingly very historically accurate and I thought brilliantly made.

Thanks @XelaM for the recommendation. He is reading his way through Natasha’s Dance but it is a very complex book. He just picks stuff up of my old book shelf.

@XelaM Unless employers specifically want MFLs they don’t look for them. You might have moved into work because you have MFLs but most grads won’t get this job at 22. The larger employers don’t automatically put through those with MFL skills unless they have a specific need for them and mostly they don’t or they recruit ready made people like you. It means MFL grads are at a disadvantage when competing against Europeans who have had much more grounding in the need for MFLs and do see they have value.

Now MFLs are not in Ebacc they will be sidelined even more. Too difficult for many. Not too difficult for dc abroad. We don’t know which ones to teach so now we will barely bother.

I don't disagree regarding adaptations of novels. But there are plenty of films, plays and documentaries etc that are great in their own right.

@XelaM @Araminta1003
I loved W&P the book (there was a whole readalong thread on here a couple of years ago and the 2016 version is worth a watch although I always thought they should have swapped Lily James and Tuppence Middleton as Natasha and Helene…
Have also read Natasha’s Dance, what a fascinating and layered history, it provides such insight!
Apparently there is a French W&P that is supposed to be pretty good but I haven’t watched that one yet.

Thank you thank you thank you once again to the poster who recommended Line/French Village on ITVX. It's absolutely brilliant and truly some of the best television I have ever seen! I'm so hooked.

As I said earlier in thread my DS is doing Spanish A level having scraped a 7 in a school with v low grades for MFL

New sixth form is great. He has now told me though that 2/3 of the class are native Spanish/ Italian or French and he feels they are on another level. He is still enjoying it. I said above he had told me only a few native Spanish, but this is an added twist.

I loved having native french speakers in my a level class. It helped me with picking up the accent and meant conversations were lively not stilted

I can see why people struggling to get top grades might feel resentful though

I agree with @OnlyFangsi think it’s a benefit having great linguists in your class. I had one in French A level. We both got a top grade, she didn’t hinder it. Would anyone complain about having a brilliant mathematician in their class? Treat it as a positive.

I don’t think he sees it as a negative. Just reflecting that they are likely at an advantage and another layer to the discussion above. It doesn’t make him or me doubt the decision to do it.

Sorry yes I could see that's what you meant. I agree they definitely have an advantage though.
If my child was a native speaker I would want them to do the A level /GCSE as an additional tbh as I think it's a bit lazy to do it as one of your core subjects!

I think a lot of kids are sort of semi bilingual - can hold a basic conversation but have barely read much in that language and so often the parents want them to improve. Truly bilingual often means schooled abroad in that language. There are so many semi bilingual kids around and of course, there is some advantage, but I am not sure it is as strong as people make out.

Bringing up your child properly bilingual takes effort. Talking your own language at home is great but only really covers speaking and listening, not reading or writing. Getting your child to read in your home language means getting hold of the books and spending the time teaching them yourself. Most parents read to their kids pre school but expect the school to actually teach them to read.
I'm trilingual and read to my kids in all my languages but any ability to read comes from school.