If money wasnt an issue

[Swan2019]

Would you send your kids privately?

Struggling with the decision. We have a good local state school and are in catchment, it's enormous though. I feel that they'll survive it rather than do brilliantly there.

Have inherited enough money to send kids privately without worrying about it.

Would you do it? Is it worth it?

Race is only one element. I also mean variety in terms of finance, SEN, disability, academic prowess, etc.

Not that the debate is applicable to our family anyway, the cost of private education is prohibitive to the vast majority of people. But the OP asked "if money was no object", and I'm answering honestly. We will not ever be able to afford to send our kids to private school, so it's fortunate for us that the situation aligns with our feelings about private education.

25% of DC in independent schools are SEN. 25% of DC in independent schools are lower income and on fee assistance.

You are deluded if you don't think that like attracts like in state schools. DC from similar backgrounds will naturally gravitate to others like them.

You are basing your prejudice on outdated and ignorant stereotypes. It's fine, many do but i do find it strange when parents say they would purposely jeopardise the education and well being of their DC based on random "morals".

If your aggressive reaction to a calm and honest answer to a question is any indication of what a private school education gets you, I'm glad my kids and I are well out of it.

I wasn't educated in an independent school, completely state educated.

I'm just challenging your assumptions and saying I don't understand. I'm not attacking you personally or being rude. You seem to hold very strong views on something you have no experience of, and don't understand. That's what I'm querying.

You called me deluded, prejudiced, and intentionally jeopardising my children's safety. Which part of that was not intended to be rude?

DC2 has more SEND classmates in our current private school than DC1 had at comp (btw he's disabled and experienced horrible treatment from teachers at good state schools).

I said you seem to have a prejudiced viewpoint yes.
I didn't say you are deluded, I said you must be if you think DC in state schools don't stick with people who have similar backgrounds.
I didn't say you do intentionally jeopardise your DC, I asked would you and why would you?

100%

It would depend on the schools themselves. There are some excellent state schools and some rubbish private schools. Visit both, and talk to parents at both. I would choose whichever school my children were best suited for, regardless of whether it was private or not. The real privilege of wealth is having a choice.

@Ubertomusic Not here! But it’s a reason why parents like a good prep and senior school! Everything in one place unless you are very gifted at a sport.

Just to add, it would be a rare parent who was paying .£15,000 - £45,000 pa for private school and thought it was pants! They will all say a school is wonderful but that doesn’t mean it is for all dc. That’s state and private. Choosing private wisely is important.

I don't believe that all independent schools are better than all state schools (or that all the negative stereotypes about privately educated people are true) but from the further information you've given OP, I might be leaning towards the private school were I in your shoes. It sounds as if you are in a very fortunate position and you probably can't actually make a bad decision really, but I'd have reservations about a school that big too. I mean it sounds like a good school and in all probability if your DC went there they'd do well - bright kids, supportive and engaged parents and a decent school is likely to be a recipe for success - but yes, compared to any of the schools I am familiar with that is indeed huge. If I had the choice and money really was no object I think I would prefer a smaller (though not too small) school. I think there's probably a sweet spot for secondary school size where it's big enough to have a population that supports a broad curriculum and wide range of extracurricular activities and to provide a good pool of potential friends, but not so big that especially the quieter kids get "lost".
One of the things that put us off our local independent school was actually that we felt it was too small. The small class sizes were a plus of course but options for GCSE and A level were quite narrow. The extracurriculars were very "traditional" and virtually compulsory as otherwise there weren't enough kids to make them viable.I had friends whose children went there and I know that for instance there was an expectation that everyone was in the school play and boys who weren't really interested in rugby were "strongly encouraged" onto the school team because numbers necessitated it. My DC went to a really small primary school and it was great but by secondary they were ready to spread their wings and I wanted them to have more choice than our local private school would have offered. But then we were fortunate that our state option is both very good and with about 150 in each year group, a manageable size.
But if the independent you're looking at is a decent size, offers what your DC need and the finances aren't an issue I can certainly see the appeal. Certainly at least one of my DC would have really struggled in a school the size of your state option.

We have grammar schools of 1300/1400 here and dc don’t struggle. In the next door county a school is over 2000 but it’s on 2 sites. Lower and upper school. Parents really like it because it’s organised like this. Small schools are problematic for friends. Big schools if well organised are great.

Mine went to a state secondary with less than 750 children. It was and still is a lovely school with fantastic pastoral care - and as a former governor there, I know that many teachers who came to see the school before applying for jobs there very frequently remarked how calm and purposeful the school felt even in transitions between classes and because of that, they bucked the trend of struggling to recruit because teachers wanted to work there. There’s another school a few miles away in a different borough with twice that number of children where there have been real issues with behaviour particularly outside the classroom.
Like everything, it starts with good leadership and that can happen in schools of every size.

@LiveshipParagon Why do teens need all of this variety around them? They just need a broad education from school. You can do the rest for them. Mine certainly were taught with differing races and religions but not much else was different as it was selective and expensive. So what? They can relate to others and don’t have prejudices. It’s mostly the state educated who do - who is putting up the flags? Eton boys? Who are the most vociferous about immigrants? It’s not the privately educated I suspect. We need to parent and not expect everything from a school.

Independent schools don’t teach confidence. However they might well do drama, allow debating and not shut down conversation on difficult topics. Being allowed to discuss things with your peers makes you confident. It’s not taught as such, it’s ethos.

Go for it ! Your kids will grow to be confident and self assured they can achieve anything!

I agree independent schools don’t teach confidence. Good ones do to teach ways of behaving in particular situations and enforce behavioural norms. In other words, they teach good manners. (Note, I used the word manners not etiquette.)

When you know what is expected of you, how to behave, how to respond appropriately, etc. It gives you confidence. You can move through more situations in life without second guessing yourself and getting distracted with self doubt.

This can only be cultivated in environments where the adults are relentless and the children are cooperative. Too many rebels, too many lazy adults, too many dc being entertained when they ask, “but why?” disingenuously, and the whole thing gets unpicked

My personal opinion is that structured environments are good for children’s development. It gives the psychological safety and scaffolds them until they develop internal controls fully. Of course their should be fun and freedom. But all day, everyday at school is not the place. It’s easier to get this at private school because everyone has opted in and paid a contribution. There are state schools that do achieve this, but they seem to be derided by many, such as the Michaela school.

We didn’t have the luxury of a suitable state education for DS1. We tried state for him and it completely broke down. If state had worked, I don’t think we would ever have considered going down the private route because we would have felt no need. The prep we moved to was wonderful for several years for both boys. DS1 eventually got a place in a special school. DS2 moved to a different prep/senior through-school a year later and he’s now in Y13. We would do it all again. It was a case of finding the best fits for two brothers with very very different educational and social needs.

@EmpressoftheMundane The Michaela is as far away from being like the independent school my dc went to as you could imagine ! We wanted dc to chat and behave well. Silence would have killed my DDs. You actually gain far more by chatting snd communicating with other dc in my view. I’ve never agreed with the Michaela approach and would never ever have paid for it.

You also don’t seem to realise that parents reinforce good manners. Schools expect good behaviour. They are not the same thing.

Ours too. At both our prep and senior school the children are really happy that everyone is treated with respect and allowed to chat and engage with each other and their teachers to a greater extent than their state school. That’s probably only possible because they don’t have the terrible behavioural problems not because of superior teaching.

They are well mannered and kind because that’s how they have been brought up. I was a goodie goodie head girl prefect type who got 10A* at GCSE etc and know that I would have hated a school like Michaela - I certainly wouldn’t pay to put my children in that kind of environment. Our school feels close to a very well resourced slightly bohemian comprehensive and the children display ease and confidence which I think is priceless. But as I’ve said above that’s what I like about private school - you can exercise choice and think about the right fit for your children.

@OhDear111 I went to 2 very different comprehensive schools, one in Liverpool and the other in Chandlers Ford (Hampshire). Both were similar sizes and were considered good. The Liverpool one was very strict with regard to uniform, having to stand up every time a teacher walked into the room, calling the teacher sir or madam, being quiet in lessons. Lines were often given out together with the cane and detentions.
The Hampshire one had a very relaxed uniform eg no jeans, pupils were allowed to talk, teachers would perch on the desk, no standing when teachers walked in etc. There would have been pandemonium if they had had the same system in my Liverpool school. This was late 70s, early 80s.

@Doraymefarsolateado yes dd3's private school is similar. They don't care what colour the girls' have their hair, have ignored dd3's total disregard for the uniform sock colour for years (she wears trousers so not too obvious), obviously expect dc to have correct equipment for lessons but unlike our local comp won't give you detention if you don't have your eraser one lesson! Dd3 has adhd and is a bit scatty but feels respected for who she is and what she brings to the school.

I was the child in this scenario.

My parents could have afforded private but they chose a nice state school. It was the only secondary in the town we lived in, walking distance from the house, and where all of our primary friends went.

Im pleased with the decision they made, did well at school (all As and A*s at gcse) and still have a lovely group of friends from those days. Going the state route made me more grounded, and I get on with people from all walks of life.

When I was choosing where to live for my kids and for schooling etc I chose a similar setup with one secondary school in the town in walking distance, and sent them to a state primary feeder. But, my youngest has adhd and social communication challenges which make that school unsuitable. So, I’m making the opposite choice for secondary and they’re going private.

Disagree that private schools don’t teach confidence.

On my DS’s entrance exam day the prep school head was at the door shaking the hand of every child. When my DS didn’t look him in the eye he called him back with a king “young man,
come back let’s try that again with you looking at me this time”. He’s been at the school 3 years now and in the early days the head would make sure to just chat to him now and again with a bit of eye contact. His confidence is soaring

If you are going to do it, make sure you have a decent buffer for further rises. I chose boarding for DD because our local all girls options are selective and her bullies from primary went there, she has SEN and no local schools do very well with it. I was "lucky" to have a family member die which gave us inheritance to see it as an option as otherwise I'm a single mum and it wouldn't have been doable. I thought £250k would cover it, which it would have at the time, with a couple of thousand left over to help with uni. Sadly now that is taking us just to GCSE and not A 'Level thanks to the VAT.

Really put enough aside for all of it with a big buffer and be realistic about boarding/if you can afford 6th form and how your dc will feel if you have to pull them out.

Sorry I haven’t read the thread.

I have been very happy that I didn’t have the choice IYSWIM. Ds’s state comprehensive was great and he was already deeply embedded into a local friendship group, most of which went to the same secondary. Their pastoral care of ds was superb when his dad died. He ended up with 4 A stars and an Oxbridge place.

I am also assured by my privately-educating peers that there is such rampant anti-private-school prejudice at Oxbridge and at all firms offering professional internships that it is basically impossible for a privately educated child to access these things. I don’t like the attitude that these statements seem to imply..

And I knew too many kids who have got managed out of private schools in case their results or their problems spoil the picture.

And yet… if I’d been able to do it without thinking about the money, yes I might have got ds to apply, not to any old private school, but the one local to me. It has a national reputation and for good reason. Ds missed out on being around serious music and sport at a young age, and the things I did to fill the gap were fine but not really enough to fulfil MY dreams for him. Also he did have very poor teachers for a couple of crucial years in English, Design & Tech, and in languages. Alongside some truly amazing ones.

If you’re talking any old St Cake’s then I wouldnt bother. If it offers something more, then maybe.