11+ 2025 support thread #2

[AquaPeer]

we are on the home run now! Continue to support, love and share in this thread

link to previous

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/5200929-11-2025-support-thread?page=40&reply=147336748

continued good luck to all x

It doesn't even really come up in the recommended routes from here but someone told me and it's how I got there for the open day and exam

Hi all, I have been following this thread with interest for DD. I’m trying to gauge the level of commitment that is required to competitively sit the London grammars. Specifically, I was wondering if those whose daughters succeeded in the Henrietta Barnett stage 1 exam could kindly outline the specific resources they used, what year they started preparing for 11+ (and how many hours per week) and whether a tutor is a necessity. Thanks in advance! Good luck to everyone sitting stage 2 next week and/or waiting on results for other schools.

Hi @Natfontana there's been quite a lot of discussion about this throughout the thread. For my part my DD started studying around the summer holidays of y4. We used atom learning which she has used fairly consistently for an hour a day about 4 days a week. By around June of y5 we started doing practice tests from GL as well as a couple of mocks on atom learning. Just before the summer holidays she did three 1 hour lessons with an English teacher mum from school. In the school holidays she continued with atom learning, 10 minute bond tests and GL practice papers, plus she did one mock with Elevenplusexams forum in Harrow. Written down that seems like a lot, and she has worked very hard, but she's been mostly getting on with things independently and very willingly. I've just marked the papers, gone through the wrong answers with her and taken her to the exams. We haven't spent money on tutors other than a donation to school funds to win the English teacher's time at a school auction,but the papers and mocks add up quickly.

Hi, thanks for sharing. I wondered how did DD do in the harrow mocks scoring?

I've read it is more about the experience than the scores as that is a selective group who attends these mocks (ie the more prepared children) and mixed with DD/DS who have been regularly attending that centre's tuition.

Or perhaps the scores on the paper mocks like GL is better to focus on?

Yes the mock was a bit of a shock to the system and knocked her confidence a bit. Her scores were a bit variable - she did v well in VR, less well in NVR and ok in English and maths. She was something like top 20% overall but erratic . Actually it was 2 mocks on the same day.

It was useful though - they went through some difficult questions afterwards and it was only there that she realised about the timed sections for HB

I am in Yorkshire, far from everyone else it seems, but someone was asking rising candidate numbers as a result of VAT on private school fees. I definitely think number of candidates has increased this year. My youngest sat for the Skipton schools last Saturday. From freedom of information info available the 2023 entrance test (for starting Yr 7 in 2024) they had 242 candidates, for 2024 test they had 276 candidates and this year it was over 300, my guess would be around 325 candidates. My son was candidate number 300 and we are near the end of the alphabet.

Hello all...
North London lurker coming out of the shadows here(!)

We have a DS who sat for Latymer and will sit for Mary Mags Aptitude on Friday. We're also trying for City of London Boys, Highgate and UCS.

Just wanted to say hello and that this whole process is beyond insane!
Thanks to those who set up this thread.

I might see you on Friday @NookAndCrannying

For the Bexley test results does anyone know how early in October these could come out? I've booked open visits to Beths and I know there are some provisional dates for Chis and Sid but would obviously prefer to have the results before visiting!

I believe it was Friday 11th last year so probably around 10th this year. I’m also hoping to see Chis & Sid.

Anyone do QE boys? Results are out apparently. Fingers crossed for anyone who sat!

Have also heard from other parents that QE results are out.....good luck for those involved

This note is sooo cute 🥹 bless him! Your DS seems a lot like mine, the number 1 thing on my sons “new year resolutions” this year was to pass the 11+. I truly hope they can do it 🤞🏻

Good luck all!

Thanks @ magnificentkitteh - that’s really helpful - sounds like you had a very motivated DD and that she put in quite a lot of hard work - very, very well done to her! I had been wondering whether Atom might be a good alternative to tutoring. We haven’t trialled it yet but have heard from some parents that it’s good as it provides instant feedback / identifies gaps. Did she have to put in a lot of hours over the summer as well or was it fairly relaxed around holidays etc? I’m really torn as to whether I should put DD forward for it next year - it sounds like a LOT of extra work and although she is pretty bright (generally a greater depth student) - she probably isn’t the top of her class. Would you say that’s a pre-requisite for such a competitive entrance exam? Thanks again for your insight. If any other parents of girls who successfully passed HB stage 1 could advise how they prepared I’d be really grateful to hear from you too! Thanks!

I genuinely don't know Natfontana. DD2 is very bright and at greater depth but I would say more gifted in the maths area than in English so doing do well in HB stage 1 was quite a pleasant surprise. I do think prep goes a long way, my older DD is very bright too but was much less motivated and did much less prep and was a long way off passing stage 2.

But then there were a couple of her friends who have been tutored and didn't get through. I do think there comes a point of diminishing returns. Once they are at the master level on all topics on atom and are familiar with the question types it's more about reducing silly errors, and I did find she plateaued a bit over the summer and got less motivated as a result. We went away for about 3 weeks in total (spread out) over the holidays and she only did the odd 10 min test while we were away. She did quite a bit of self study in the final week of the holidays but that was her preference over holiday club. She stuck to school hours and then stopped at 3pm and had weekends off.

She is a bit of a geek as I said though. Maths club is her favourite club, and she'd often pick up puzzle books etc so I just switched these for GL books - i would leave them hanging around on the breakfast table and she would pick them up while eating breakfast.

Dd1 is a different beast- I would have needed to be much more directive with her and I'm not sure that would have sat right with me. I didn't know about atom learning then though and that might have made the difference. I'll never know.

DS has 3 friends who passed HBS last year and year before. He knows them through music. They are all gifted children, both academically and musically. They all did max 1 hour of tutoring a week plus 1 hour homework and a couple of mocks in Year 5. If that is not going to be enough “work”, maybe it is not worth doing it in the first place? They all did their grade 8 pianos or similar in Year 6 after 11 plus and did very well. As @Magnificentkitteh says, most the kids we know who pass these tests are natural geeks and love reading and learning and facts etc. I know people always say it is parents tutoring years and years. Maybe a few slip through like that, but it is not really my experience. Most of the kids are academically gifted in the first place, then need to familiarise. Obviously some are going to be Maths whizz more and others will be more English so then they may have to do a bit more work on one of the others. Mine were all naturally good at Maths, English and verbal and we only really needed to put in the practice on the non verbal, apart from DS1 who is really strong at Maths and NVR and VR and needed to put work in on English inference skills.

This by the way is for the superselectives. For straight passes for eg Kent, Bucks and Bexley it is completely different and hardworking bright children who do a reasonable amount of work will do well.

So I would say it is completely different being in the top 20-30 per cent cognitively on a population level, then in the top 5% as a prerequisite. Maybe some kids who are top 15% do slip through, but mostly they are top 5%. Class of 30 kids, top 10% is the top 3, top 5% is 1.5. So yes, top of the class typically for superselectives. High achieving state primaries in Kent/Bucks etc may well have 10 plus kids passing, sometimes more.

Not necessarily. The 11+ is a very specific type of test and it does not suit everyone, regardless of intelligence.

It also, of course, makes no allowances for children who develop later in life than at 10.

@thing47 - not everyone applies or even has a grammar school locally anyway.
Look at the top grade at GCSE for Maths and English, a 9, also hovers around the 5% typically.

It is not a coincidence these schools then turn out kids with 8 and 9s. They were always going to, at least most of them. That is where their cognitive ability lies.
But yes, it is true, that it probably requires a certain amount of a rounded brain to pass in the first place.
It does not stop the 95% of children with no access to grammars from doing as well as they were meant to either.

Dd1's CAT scores when she started y7 put all her targets at 9s. But she was miles off the cut off point for round 2 HBS and Latymer. We'd massively underestimated the need to practise.

But whether simply practising and practising is enough, I'm not sure. Dd2 has a very whizzy maths brain. She takes after my DH. I have A level further maths at grade A but DH and DD are so quick compared to me! And I knew DH when I was doing A levels and he tried to teach me and I just got frustrated as I couldn't keep up. That said her maths haven't really been tested/marked yet except via VR/NVR. And lots of people say they haven't even covered the right stuff in the state school y5 curriculum, so she could be massively under prepared compared to others.

No, it just requires a brain which grasps the concepts inherent in 11+ style questions. Children who aren't very good at this may nevertheless turn out to be very good indeed at, say, analysing works of literature, conducting scientific research or being highly creative.

One of the first things DS's GS (not a super-selective) told us was that there was little direct correlation between 11+ score and.GCSE results, and even less with A level results.

Admittedly there is likely to be a closer correlation at super-selective GSs where only c5% get into the school.